posted
I'm curious to know what you folks think is a fair price for this job. A friend of mine recently did four dumpsters like this. He charged what I think was a fair price and was paid. He has since found out that another shop in town ("Mr. Lowball") will do the same job at a HUGE discount (70% less) from what my buddy charged for the job. The client has several more dumpsters to letter. The client plans to take them to "Mr. Lowball" competitor unless my buddy is willing to match the price (or at least come close). My buddy just can't do it for 70% less (and I don't blame him-I couldn't either).
Here are the details:
In his words, after the experience gained from the first 3, "Working like a race track pit crew" he was able to complete the fourth trailer in just over an hour. Keep in mind he cut, weeded and taped all lettering ahead of time at his shop. He has to drive about a half hour to the site to do the job. His work bench is the bed of his pick up truck. As you can see in the picture of the side of the trailer, there is often standing water on the muddy ground. So you may be standing in mud as you do the job. You will also need to clean off the lettering surfaces since they are always dirty when you arrive. There are also trucks driving in and out of the yard kicking up dirt and dust as you work. However, the customer is also very forgiving if you get some air bubbles or wrinkles in the lettering.
All the lettering is cut from 6 year grade vinyl. The trailer itself is 30 feet long. The large letters in "BRICK" are about 18" tall. The smaller line of copy below that is 8" tall. There is a small logo and some numbers on the back (figure that you already had the logo in your system from other jobs-you don't need to create it). There is also some 8" copy and a phone number on the front.
What would you charge?
After I see a few of your responses, I'll post what my buddy charged and what "Mr. Lowball" competitor charged. I could be wrong, but I think you will be shocked at how little "Mr. Lowball" gets for doing this job.
-------------------- Jim McLain McLain Studios 1203 Main Street Asbury Park, NJ 07712 jlm@mclainstudios.com Posts: 42 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for the input Dave. That seems like a reasonable price for Colorado. My buddy was a little bit higher than you, but then we are in New Jersey. Our cost of living is quite high here and so then are our prices.
However, "Mr. Lowball" has got you beat-- BY A LOT!
I would still like to see a few more responses before I post "Mr. Lowball's" price.
-------------------- Jim McLain McLain Studios 1203 Main Street Asbury Park, NJ 07712 jlm@mclainstudios.com Posts: 42 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here in Texas I would have charged about $375 each if there were four to do and I could do all four in one trip. Total of $1,500.
There are shops here that would have done it for somewhere around half that, but they would not be in business very long.
Just a few weeks ago a local shop locked the door and left in the middle of the night. His prices were extremely low, but he was always swamped with work.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
I'm wondering if "Mr.Lowball" will close shop. He has been around for quite some time. So my buddy and I are wondering how he can charge so little and still survive.
OK...so we have two reasonable prices so far. Let me see one more and I'll let you know what "Mr.Lowball" is charging. By the way, "Mr.Lowball" is willing to do just ONE dumpster for his ridiculously low price. That means he would be making FOUR trips!
-------------------- Jim McLain McLain Studios 1203 Main Street Asbury Park, NJ 07712 jlm@mclainstudios.com Posts: 42 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hiya James, Don't worry about Mr Lowball, I doubt he worries about you. Besides, he doesn't pay your bills. Price your product so it is profitable to you. If you don't get it, oh well, move on the to the next profitable job. Just one thought, if this guy's been around for a long time, he could have bought his property before the real estate boom in your area. So, his overhead can be next to nothing. My wife lived in Lakewood for a while. When she and her mom purchased a condo in the area about 12 years ago, they paid about $65k. When her mom sold it about 5 years ago, she got more than double the original price they paid and the prices keep going up. Man, I'm happy I got out of there when I did As for pricing this job, I would probably be in the same range as David or Ray, perhaps a little higher. I want to add that the difference in real estate prices really doesn't affect your hourly rate that much. Just for kicks and giggles, when I finished calculating my overhead, I did it again using some New Jersey costs. Surprisingly, it added less than $5 to my hourly rate.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for the input Checkers, though I disagree a bit about the real estate/hourly rate issue. Your eyes would probably pop out of your skull if you saw first hand what is happening with real estate values and property taxes in Jersey. Anyway...that's a debate for a different topic.
Well it would seem from the 3 responses here that a fair price for this type of job would be somewhere around $350. You ready for this?....
Mr.Lowball comes in at $120! He's willing to do a single dumpster too! Now I ask you; how can this guy be making any money?! Would any of you here even consider doing this job for $120?
My buddy feels a bit sick about the whole situation because he has been doing other custom work for the dumpster client. He has been doing fancy truck door lettering with real gold leaf. The client has been paying and not squawking about price. In fact he was not even shopping for price when he found out about Mr.Lowball. He happened to be talking to another business owner that also uses dumpsters and was referring my buddy to the other business owner. He was bragging about how great my buddy is and that they both should use him for their dumpsters. The other business owner happens to use Mr.Lowball and that's how the issue of cost came up. Two satisfied clients using two different sign shops were chatting and comparing notes. One shop, my buddy's shop, is charging $400, and the other shop, Mr.Lowball, is charging only $120 for essentially the same job!
Now with this dumpster issue, my buddy risks losing this company as a client because Mr.Lowball will probably be given first shot at the other work since he was so cheap on the dumpster job and comes highly recommended. Now some of you are going to say "Oh...don't worry. Mr.Lowball will probably do a crappy job on the other work and the client will come back with his tail between his legs..." Well...maybe...but then again maybe not! I've seen some of Mr.Lowball's work and frankly it's not bad.
My buddy and I could really care less about this particular dumpster job, but in general this lowball pricing by competitors like this is ruining the profession for the rest of us. That's what really irks us most.
We've heard that Mr.Lowball has some rental properties and that is where he makes money to live on (just hearsay, of course, but a plausable explanation). Perhaps he is using that money to subsidize the sign business and allows him to take very little money out of the sign business. However you want to believe he is doing this, it in general is bad for the rest of us. The job is farily priced at around $350 and Mr.Lowball is doing it at a 65% discount from the rest of us! And he is NOT doing an inferior job!
How would you guys explain this to your customer? Would you really blame your customer for giving the job to the other guy? It's not like you can say "You get what you pay for..." Mr.Lowball is actually doing a decent job!
-------------------- Jim McLain McLain Studios 1203 Main Street Asbury Park, NJ 07712 jlm@mclainstudios.com Posts: 42 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I guess that Mr.Lowball likes to work for next to nothing. Personally, I'll be sitting in my Lazy-Boy drinking a cold beverage before I'll work for poverty wages. Call this dude and explain that he's hurting us all. He will either agree or disagree, but at least he'll think about it on his next bid. I like to confront whatever is bothering me and get on with life. We will always have to "educate" the customer and the newbies.
-------------------- Dave Shirk Fitting Finishes Signs & Embroidery 78 Apache Trail South Fork, CO 81154 Posts: 16 | From: South Fork, Colorado, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hiya Jim, I know more about New Jersey than I care to admit. Perhaps this lowballer is conveniently located, went into this business and purchased his shop before the Jersey real estate boom. This could be back when you could buy a home or a business in South Jersey (below the Raritan River) for under $100k. Then I could see it being possible to charge so little and still make money. Either way, I still wouldn't worry about him though, because there's plenty of work in your area. Just tell your buddy to find another, better client that doesn't require him to work in the mud.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
You should go talk to Mr. Lowball, he may not know how low he is. Also, that quote is only hearsay, you only know what the customer told the sign guy. Unless you go talk to him and ask why he is lowballing the crap out of jobs you will never know the truth. Maybe the price is not for this job, but the buddy's job. If this is all accurate, then I doubt the guy knows he is leaving 70% on the table. No matter what his reasonings are I'm sure he would rather get $300 each and still get this job. We try to stay right in line with everyone here, or goal is to be 2nd or 3rd most expensive.
It's funny how much comradery exists here and how much we hate that SOB accross town.
-------------------- David The Sign Factory Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 19 | From: Roanoke, VA | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic