[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]

I just don't get all these dots and Border!
I know your looking for a price on this.

I saw your post on the truck as well. I see your just starting out and have invested probably mucho denero into a plotter and software, I suggest you also look into purchasing a sign estimating program like Estimate. You can input all your overhead costs, establish an hourly wage and there is a window part of the program just for this.

Instead of me telling you what I would charge, because that wouldn't help you effectively price jobs in the future. I will try to help you find your own true costs.

Guessing or charging what others charge will run you into a LOT of problems.

You can download a demo from www.estimatesoftware.com

Also check out the book section of this site and pick up a copy of Mike Steven's Book " Mastering Layout " if you don't already have it. Great book, it will become your Bible.

It is worth more than your plotter!

[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]

Here's another tip for you. Typing in all caps is considered shouting, and typing in bold all caps is REALLY shouting!

Try figuring out how much vinyl you will need to produce it, including transfer tape and window cleaning supplies. Mark these up (some people double their materials) You are going to have to guess how many hours it will take you to produce and apply this sign and tally that in as well. I know you are looking for specific numbers to help you get started, but pricing is something you have to do yourself. (I know, I started the same way you did) It might make you feel better to know that we all struggle with pricing.

One good tip that people gave me...don't charge less because you are new. People will get to know you as the "cheap" sign guy, and then it will be very hard to raise your prices later. Your confidence will pricing will grow as you gain more experience.

Because of the bold caps I get the impression you might have been mad about my post.

Did you feel as if I was looking down at you?

If I came across that way, I am sorry. I didn't mean to.

I reread my original post and had to edit it. It came out different than I meant it.
& remember were all beginners and we never stop learning, that's why we are all here.

What Sue says is correct, try NOT to be the cheap guy, although you might find out you end up being just that.

When you just start out you don't have as much overhead, like insurances, shop rent, and things like that so your pricing would reflect that.

Just learn form your jobs, track your time and mark up your materials. The first few will be guestimates. But as you go it will get easier.

[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]

[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]

Welcome to Letterville!!! Figguring pricing really sux doesn't it!!?? For someone just starting out I would suggest the $7.00 Sign Estimating Guide sold everywhere. Read it front to back but don't try to memorize it. Just get a "feel" for the average job. It will give you confidence to price your work for what it's WORTH, not just what it cost you to produce (although that's important also). Do know your costs, but more importantly, produce a quality product!!! (even if it's a cheapo sign), MAKE IT AS NICE AS YOU CAN and price it for it's value to your customer.

Question:
Did you ever get a CHEAP haircut?? You know, saved a buck or two from some fancy place?? Go home, get a shampoo and find out you've been scalped!! (TUPPERWARE WASN'T THAT BAD AFTERALL WAS IT)!! I don't know about you..... but for a couple of extra bucks I don't have the need to where a hat that often!!! (Get my point)?

Good luck in your new ventures!! I think you have found a place to find some answers!!

On your truck job I agree that $250-$275 is fair, but on the right day I'd have done it for $125-$150

On this job I think it looks like $250-$350 for the window (how fat is that border?), & another $200 to re-letter existing CLEAN signface. (less if they bring the plex to you, & pick it up.)

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]

figure $60/hour. its the national average, and its safe. if you're in a really poor region (like, maybe near a Ford plant), go to $50... just until you sit down and figure your real overhead.

here are the steps i would take:
1. decide "is this gonna take me all day to lay out every last little dot? or can i do it with a chalk line and yardstick in 2 hours?"
2. figure out how much you need per month to live. divide that by 20 (the number of working days in a month). that's your "day rate". fiigure out how many days the job SHOULD take you and multiply by the day rate. dont charge less than that. that number is ALREADY less than $60/hour.
3. double the amount of the vinyl needed to do the job. the "extra" you might need is "covered" by the doubling. dont forget to figure how much transfer tape you'll need, and mark that up too! (no, its NOT included with the vinyl for free.). the paper towels, stabillo, chalk and RapidTacII ARE covered by the markup on the tape and vinyl.
4. compare the figure you get with the hourly rate to the figure you get with your day rate. then ask the customer what they had in mind to spend. add the cost of vinyl to the numbers you came up with and then comprimise and pick a number that's sort of inbetween their number and your two number.

i'd guess that you've got 2 hours of fussing with dots, 30 minutes on the main window graphic, and 1.5 hours with the borders. maybe 30 minutes for the plexi sign. add an hour for setting up the file, weeding and taping (at the shop). don't charge for cutter time, because the machine is working, not you. by my guess, you've got 4.5 hours - call it 5. that's $300, plus vinyl and tape. so... the job will really take you all day, and you can probably charge $250 to $350 including vinyl. quote $350, and tell them they can save $50 if the window is perfectly clean all the way to the weather caulk. (you'll still need to wash the window with RapidTac, but it wont take as long. my time estimates above included washing and wiping).

figure $60/hour. its the national average, and its safe. if you're in a really poor region (like, maybe near a Ford plant), go to $50... just until you sit down and figure your real overhead.

here are the steps i would take:
1. decide "is this gonna take me all day to lay out every last little dot? or can i do it with a chalk line and yardstick in 2 hours?"
2. figure out how much you need per month to live. divide that by 20 (the number of working days in a month). that's your "day rate". fiigure out how many days the job SHOULD take you and multiply by the day rate. dont charge less than that. that number is ALREADY less than $60/hour.
3. double the amount of the vinyl needed to do the job. the "extra" you might need is "covered" by the doubling. dont forget to figure how much transfer tape you'll need, and mark that up too! (no, its NOT included with the vinyl for free.). the paper towels, stabillo, chalk and RapidTacII ARE covered by the markup on the tape and vinyl.
4. compare the figure you get with the hourly rate to the figure you get with your day rate. then ask the customer what they had in mind to spend. add the cost of vinyl to the numbers you came up with and then comprimise and pick a number that's sort of inbetween their number and your two number.

i'd guess that you've got 2 hours of fussing with dots, 30 minutes on the main window graphic, and 1.5 hours with the borders. maybe 30 minutes for the plexi sign. add an hour for setting up the file, weeding and taping (at the shop). don't charge for cutter time, because the machine is working, not you. by my guess, you've got 4.5 hours - call it 5. that's $300, plus vinyl and tape. so... the job will really take you all day, and you can probably charge $250 to $350 including vinyl. quote $350, and tell them they can save $50 if the window is perfectly clean all the way to the weather caulk. (you'll still need to wash the window with RapidTac, but it wont take as long. my time estimates above included washing and wiping).

When you have a minute, checkout an article by Jeff Cahill in the "Features" section of www.signcraft.com. It about how to determine your hourly rate.

As to your original question, in my neck of the woods......

Lighted sign face only.....$215.00 + tax
Window/Door................$535.00 + tax

[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: Carl Wood ]

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Carl Wood ]