posted
There once was a designer who wanted me to match a color to paint something in vinyl ink and she brought in a book with PMS colors where the shades IN BETWEEN the color numbers were referenced on a full page and then wanted me to hit a shade in between two of the sub shades.
I did the best I could, and showed her the result in a wet and dried version. She did not like it.
I made the monumental mistake of setting her in front of the gallon buckets of inks and with rags and stir sticks and soup cans asked her to have a go at it herself while I did something where, maybe, I might be more successful.
A lot of wasted vinyl ink later, not to mention wasted time and interruptive chatter, she agreed that what I had mixed was the best we could get, okayed it, and left behind a big mess to clean and a smoking head on my shoulders.
Just now, a person left who aggravated me about 10 times as much, for 2 and a half hours. Did not place an order of any kind and I hope with fervent prayer that she never will. I am in hysterics.
One day, when I’m retired, (probably tomorrow) I will write a short story about the experience. Right now I have to go out and letter the truck she kept me from while it was still not yet 95degrees outside.
All I wanted is a little mouse with a tape recorder and a chance to play it to someone who would understand – I know all of you understand even without me wading through the details of the miserable experience.
Thanks for being there.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Myra....why do you allow customers to do that to you?
My usual answer to customers like that will vary from: "Sorry, can't do that." "No." NO!" "Don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out!" to: "One more word outta you and I'm gonna tear yer head off and use it as a bowling ball!"
Sure make life a lot easier!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The reasons, Si, are that I want to hit a medium between being assertive and clear versus just being what -if it came out of my dainty little mouth- would be rude and bullying. Most times it is possible. When I get out of control angry, I am unhappy with myself later. I consider myself a person who, as she is evolving, learns to have a handle on those things that temporarily rock the boat, without having to have it ruin her day and disposition
I told this person: There is a sign shop nearby ( I have a map handout ) where you may be able to find more samples and options and price variations, and possibly more agreeable people to speak to.
I'm sorry we are not able to make any progress. It is not possible for me to continue this interaction without you hiring me as a consultant at $ 50 per hour.
I escalated what I said and still was not heard.
I suppose, physical threats might have brought the desired result. And I thank you for bringing me that big belly laugh I needed to come back to earth.
It was a real treat to meet you last week in Long Beach, by the way. That show rocked in attendance. I hope you liked it in content.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Myra, I feel the pain also. Being clear and assertive has little to do with it, when dealing with most people. I flat ask the questions What's your budget? What do you want? What colors do you like? Many just can't seem to understand that whn I explain a design and tell them the size and colors, it's based on what they just told me. The pain come in when I lose a job and see it later on done much more elaborately and expensively, because I can't figure out why I wasn't given better answers to my questions.
posted
Body language is more effective than you think...
Besides using Si's tactics ( I was never a good bowler anyway), I start to physically walk away. Back up, get behind a desk, move to the door out back, I don't care, but put distance between the two of you. It helps a lot of the time!! They will sub-consciously start to realize that they are getting nowehere.
Or get a rottweiler.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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I understand Myra, lately I too tend to try to be a little more reasonable when dealing with people. A**holes , however, are a totally different story. When dealing with them I'm like Si, possibly worse There is a certain percentage of the population that just "doesn't get it", they have to have things their way, no matter how far out of whack or how unreasonable that might be. I grew up with kids like that, went to school with them, worked with them and for them. One of the main reasons I'm self employed is I DO NOT have to put up with ANY A**hole of any sort.!!! Be reasonable and I will too, show your a** and you'll loose me...very quickly! Life is just too short to put up with any kind of unecessary sort of crap. This womans demands , to me constitute CRAP. If a certain color can't be mixed it can't be mixed. Reminds me of that country song "What part of no don't you understand"
I'm in the process of repainting my bedroom/bathroom. I had a certain shade of peach in mind. Nobody could get close. I can mix it in One Shot, but rather than become one of the kinds of people I despise, or paint the room with One Shot,I settled for something else. If it can't be mixed it can't be mixed.
[ August 22, 2002, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
Hang in there. It could be much worse. It could be two toddlers who cry for their Mom and talk all day long. And who never go home. That is my life at the moment and why I have not had much time to get on the computer. I can now go days with out checking my e-mail and I never thought that was possible before the kids moved in.
And they bring home so many germs home from daycare. I am still recovering from the last one with high fevers. It hit me worse then the kids. But hey, don't get me wrong, the kids are worth it.
My little camping buddies.
You do good work Myra! The kids even like to carry the magnets you made around. The refrigerator is one big play board with magnets (ABC's, etc). So do not let your non customers get you down.
Stay cool and don't let them jerk your chain.
Love,
Debbie
-------------------- Debbie Posts: 674 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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just show them the ghost on the computer with the volume all the way up.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Myra....I have learned, especially in the last 5 years, you have to be upfront, straight forward and brutally honest with most people. Some actually like it! And some really wonder. I don't care what they think. I have been burned, screwed, messed with and treated like crap by a few in my 27 years as a signlady. Some just like to waste your time. Pretty much some days you get more than your share of grumps or users. Today is one of those days for me too. I can feel your pain. Tomorrow will be better! Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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Hey Myra, I can usaully handle the "picky" ones, but realize that perfection is NEVER attainable by any human being. It's usually the rude ones that bug me. I've had my share of them and had to bite my tongue on not a few occasions.
Had a man come in one day with his wife. She never said a word, acted like she was scared of him: "how much is that sign right there" (in a demanding, rude manner and pointing to the portfolio)
Me "about three thousand dollars"
Then, after immediate reactions of rude, sarcastic, snide remarks and expletives, this Neandethal then calls some associate on the cell phone and in a mocking manner says: "wonna three thousand dollar sign?"
No matter how polite you are to some people, they seem to have never gotten past the "school bully" stage. I'm learning to deal with them.
[ August 22, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I'm to the point where I can usually figure these people in the first few minutes or so. You have your introductions, make your small talk about the weather, current events or whatever, and then get down to business.
I don't do this with everybody, but I do it with most.... Bear with me. My father always said that "it's not what you say, it's how you say it". Knowing that and knowing that there are people out there that just won't "get it" no matter what you do, here's the game plan:
Guy or Gal comes in for a sign. Introductions and salutations, or "Hello, what can I sell you today?/ How can I take money from you today"... Unless they are looking for directions to the gas station, this helps to steer them to the POINT. Who are you. What do you do. What do you want. What is you budget. Are you the one responsible for making the purchase? If a new design or a layout or sketch or an overlay on a digital picture of the vehicle or building is needed then it goes this way: "Ok, I've got all or more information than I need to create your "project". Let me put a couple of ideas together and I'll have you come back (when) to take a look at what we can do. NOW I'M GOING TO KICK YOU OUT SO I CAN GET TO WORK ON YOUR PROJECT. Yes, I actually tell people that I'm kicking them out.
I also tell these goofy kids that want car graphics "NO". Spend your money on the new air intake or get some better tires, then come back to see me. (something like that)
I had a guy in here a while ago that purchased a used chevy shortbox pickup. I think it was early 90's. Anyway, here's a guy that has 6 or 7 kids, a wife that works her butt off doing alterations in her spare time, his employment is sketchy and he wants flames on the truck. He does not need to invest in flames on this old truck that needs work. He DOES have the money, but "I" feel guilty because this moron is spending it on flames and not his needy family. I did the flames, I took the money. Darn it.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:All I wanted is a little mouse with a tape recorder and a chance to play it to someone who would understand.
I have used these very words before when wanting to convey a trying situation to Dave, but just knew I wouldn't really be able to capture the dynamics of it accurately.
posted
Thanks - all of you! I understand what each of you are saying lots better than you think. My chains were jerked and I had to let off some steam.
I should end it here and go eat dinner.
Instead, watch how nuts she made me: she did not listen to or hear what I said that spelled: "go away - I don't want or need this job - ever".
Instead she turned personal and said things like: "I can't imagine that you have any customers left, being as unfriendly as you are. " and "I want you to stop treating me like I'm a difficult customer (and when I said she really was and that we were probably quite incompatible and would not work well together she turned deaf again) and "I almost walked out on you with your attitude( overlooking my big smiley eyes and nodding head with an encouraging grin)" - "Oh, no, I could never let you chose the vinyl to match my colors ( magic markers), where is it I need to do this myself" -"I want a simple letter, but I want to pick it out, what kinds do you have (four charts later, on my walls, with me walking away to weed something) choses Futura Bold" because she saw it on some sign sitting around, and then went back to each chart clucking while she looked for it and said, "how could I have missed it each time,I looked at everything."- She crawls over the outside of my building with 2 four foot yardsticks on top of each other to simulate a room height, to determine whether the circular sign ought to be 27" or 28" - which do you think looks better? I said 30". Then she wants me to explain why, in detail. Wanted to see cardboard, aluminum, plywood, corex, sintra samples and walked around fingering and searching for other things to request. Then said, it's just going against a store wall inside, how much could I save by putting it on paper. and no, I am not making this up.
After the lecture from me about the value of my time, expertise and equipment - etc. - I got a lecture from her about that she is a person who makes window valances, not signs, and needs to have my advice. I said she came to a professional for a reason, and if I came to her for a valance I would value her judgment and let her do it at a profit and trust her on the small stuff and not micromanage inconsequential details. After that we had a substantial back and forth about the size of TM on the bottom of the damn circle of her logo, and settled on 3/4 ", maybe!!! At the end of the 2 hours I had taken a yellow highlighter and marked 9 places where she still had to make up her mind about various minute, nitpicky choices. She walked off with 4 fistsize chunks of vinyl samples for color, so she can go "play with them" on her wall. I made her give me six bucks for them.
I will never be the same after this. I need no more flaming. You all have been in over your heads when you were incompatible with someone. Some kill, I would have had it gone on another 15 minutes.
Anyway, hope I amused you.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Myra- I hear ya. I had a deadbeat customer finally come in today to pick up some $35 business cards that he ordered 6 weeks ago. Of course he previously ordered and picked up his first two sets promptly so I let me guard down and didn't take a deposit on this last set. I called him once a week for 5 weeks to "remind" him of his balance, the last time was this Monday. In my voicemail to him I mentioned something about "by this Friday" and "goes to collections." So he came in today and paid for his cards and asked if I could start the $80 banner we discussed 6 weeks ago. I told him its now $110 and that I don't start anything without a payment in full. We went back and forth a few times about the deposit/payment issue but I got so fed up with him I told him to forget it, we aren't making banners anymore. He got the point. Yes, I too watched the thermometer rise as the halfway lettered van sitting outsite waited for me to return to it.
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks for making me realise that I am not the only one who gets customers like this.
I just remind myself that they will BE GONE in a little while. And my life will somehow go on WITHOUT them unless I let them get under my skin... in which case they won't be GONE quite as quick.
Now I just have to take a deep breath.... and move on.
Thanks for the reminder that I'm not the only one.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8739 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Do you have any books that I can look at to get some ideas - or - (vehicle graphics) show me all of the kinds of pinstriping you can do - or - show me your books with all of the different vehicle designs.
I don't have that.
Here's a photo album of some of the different kinds of things I have done.
Take a walk up and down the street and look at the signs. The nice ones are mine.
Stand next to the road and you'll see cars I've striped and truck I've lettered.
You give me an idea of what you are trying to do and that's what I'll work on.
Here's 2 ideas. One is cheap, the other expensive. Take your pick or we can go somewhere in between.
The customer is not always right. If (he or she) was, they'd make their own darn sign. You came to me for professional advice. If you do not want professional advice, you are in the wrong place.
Maybe we could figure this out if we were totally drunk.
Maybe you should not come into my shop totally drunk.
OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH, some customers!
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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I am thankful I am a grumpy old geezer they usually take the hint pretty quick
-------------------- Ian Wilson Signmaker Retired 3 Panorama Drive Toowoomba Queensland Australia may all your troubles be little ones. The man that never make a mistake never makes anything. Posts: 656 | From: Toowoomba Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Myra, we feel your pain. hang in there. Once in a while we get customers on the phone that want some pretty bizzarre things. It's all part of the job.... lol
-------------------- Jeff Bailey Rapid Tac Inc. Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 231 | From: Grants Pass, Oregon, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Myra, Thanks! What a treasure of a day. You couldn't buy such a gift. I'm glad we're here so you could have a place to vent, but over the years, how many of us will smile hearing the humor from your experience and we'll all learn from you. We all get small doses of that customer.These memories will be sparkling stars on many evenings during afterglow moments at letterhead meetings. Again, thanks for sharing with us.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6726 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Once I had a lady bring her new LEXUS to me. She wanted me to add "little swirleys" at the ends of the straitline pinstripes (under the clear). I told her I could match the color but the "swirleys" would be on top of the clear, so the "texture" would be different. She said "I heard you could make it perfect.....can you do that?" So I told her.... "LAST WEEK WE WERE A DONUT SHOP. DIDN'T WORK OUT, SO THIS WEEK WE'RE A SIGN SHOP. IF THAT DONT WORK OUT, NEXT WEEK WE'LL BE A LAUNDROMAT!" She got in her "perfect" LEXUS and left!
posted
Myra - things like that shouldn't happen to such a nice lady!...but they do, don't they?
Since you didn't ask for advice, I'm going to give you some anyway. It seems that some people are control freaks - they have to be in control of every detail of every situation. While she was with you she was controlling the events. Even after she had left the premises she was still controlling you as you rehearsed the events of the two hour meeting. Advice from Dr. Ray: no one can control you without your permission. The sooner you let go of the negative thoughts the better you will feel. You've vented, now blow her off and don't allow her to control your thoughts any longer.
Now, how's that for advice from a friend? Wouldn't it be great if I could follow my own prescription?
We've all had jerks like yours in our business. Not much we can do about those... but appreciate the other 99% that are good, loyal customers.
[ August 23, 2002, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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My sister-in-law said one smart thing- "don't let people rent space in your head for free!!"
Also, even the biggest nimrod knows people you probably would want to deal with, so be careful who you give the bum's rush to...they will pass along the word that you were an ignoramus, because that type of person is never rude (in their own mind) right??
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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I've been away from the bb for a few weeks and I saw this thread and have nearly wet myself laughing...I'm not alone...It doesn't just happen to me...
Why do we have to be civilised and behave in a polite and condusive manner? When all we really want to do is SMASH THEM IN THE HEAD...
that feels better...
Chin up chook,
-------------------- Lee Attewell Graffic Jam Auto Unit 3, 1731 Albany Highway, Kenwick Western Australia 6108 Posts: 102 | From: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA | Registered: Oct 2001
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I feel your frustration, Myra. Had a similar situation a week or so ago. A used car dealer from about 30 miles away wanted a sign to go on the back of a bench at a county fair. About 4 days lead time to do it. Got it done, and delivered it to him. He seemed happy as all get-out, paid and never said a word about the price. I had given him a ball park figure before starting. Then he noticed the phone number was wrong. Easy fix--took the sign back home, fixed the number at no extra charge, and gave it back to his son who had followed me back to the shop.
Then, he starts talking about replacing a couple of old signs---with a lot of dawdling along the way. We more or less settle on the layout, then right out of the clear blue sky, he starts jumping all over me about the price on the last sign------bellyaching that it was a lot of money "for what it was." Well, what was it? He wanted it , he got it on time, and delivered as well--so what is the complaint?
To top it off, when I checked the receipt, it was for $25 less than the figure he was bitching about.
The upshot-- after a lot of back and forth, I told him where the bear went in the buckwheat, and that I didn't want to do any more work for him--anticipating that there would most likely be more after-the-fact bellyaching after completion again. Once down that road is enough, and I'm too damn old to put up with that kind of nonsense.
Going home from his place, I was way less upset than I thought I would be, and actually felt pretty good about the whole deal.
With 2 other shops that I know of near him, and one of those almost literally within a stone's throw of him, I should have seen the red flags-----and didn't. Lesson learned.
[ August 26, 2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Hey Myra, we all have these types come in from time to time, bit Raymond hit the nail on the head.
quote: We've all had jerks like yours in our business. Not much we can do about those... but appreciate the other 99% that are good, loyal customers.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
And who never go home. That is my life at the moment and why I have not had much time to get on the computer. I can now go days with out checking my e-mail and I never thought that was possible before the kids moved in.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
My little camping buddies.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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