posted
I saw a sandblasted Medex (exterior MDF) sign today that I made about 10 to 12 years ago. I was surprised to see how well it's held up. It gets full sun facing west. I quit using Medex after some of my signs were falling apart within a couple of years. I see other ones done by other shops that sometimes hold up well, but usually not. I would like to be able to use medex. I like the way you can rout the edges on cutout letters and panels. I have no idea what I did different on that sign. I always use acrylic wood primer and at least 2 coats of acrylic or latex finish. Has anyone been able to make Medex last 5 years or more?
I don't think it was anything you did. Some of the first signs I did on Medex held up fine. Then, at some point, everything I made with it started failing within months. I did not change my finishing methods either. I'm convinced the makers of Medex, the Medite Corp., changed the formula without telling anybody. My supplier suspected this, too. I confronted some Medite reps at a trade show about it but they denied any formula change. When I explained to them that my first signs held up well but that later signs would swell up and self-destruct, they lost interest in the conversation. I'm sure the truth is out there.
I lost mucho dinero on this stuff re-doing all the signs that came back.
Brad in Arkansas
------------------ Brad Ferguson 4782 West Highway 22 Paris AR 72855 501-963-2642 signbrad@cswnet.com
Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have to agree with Brad. I have cut-out letters that have been up for 12 years and still looking good. I repainted one of the signs this past year, and all it needed was a recoat to bring the color back. I also have some that have been up 3 years, and I have allready had to replace the lettering. The last one, I replaced with plastic letters. I decided it was actually cheaper to pay for setup and letters than to have to replace these things every few years. Also, because of changing to plastic, the customer was willing to pick up part of the cost.
------------------ Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY sbdsigns@aol.com
Posts: 2274 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Add me to the list of people that say stay away from Medex in exterior applications. It's not just me, competitors Medex signs around here have almost totally disintegrated.
Medex claims that medex responds like wood. Not true. It responds more like masonite.
Wood is that is not maintained (painted)deteriorates from the outside in.
When medex is not maintained, water gets into the laminations and the material gets cancer from the inside out - really ugly. you go to take the signface down and it breaks up in your hands.
Stay away from Medex for exterior applications!
------------------ Victor Georgiou Bob Loves Signs Danville, CA email blssigns@verio.com
Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I agree with the posts so far - I have also had Medex signs that did fine, and others that self-destructed. Yet I have heard as many who proudly defend this material. It would be great to see some useable and accurate information. Are their different brands, as in MDO? Which are better? Who carries the "good" medex, if their is such a thing? British sign shops use it all the time, and those I've talked to swear by it. What are we missing?
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I too fell to the allure of the magic medex mareial, how well it sanded and shaped, how smooth the surface and the salesmen were... But do'nt be fooled by its smooth but firm and dense caracteristics... It is evil, within months its face deforms to a bubbled, heideous crator-like mess with over swelled screwholes where it wants to rip itself a way from the wall. no thank you ... but, if some body brought me something that was made of the evil, shapeable wood-like substance and wanted me to finish it i would:
first using a hi- solid hi quality wood primer (2 coats)
then a uerathane pimer(automotive grade)
then an acrylic-eurathane base coat(also automotive grade)2-3 coats
finally 3-4 coats of AU clear
if it was a carved piece or something that needed to be guilded be sure to use slow size if you want clear it.
------------------ -------------------------------------------------- "A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?"
posted
About 2 years ago everybody was hyping Medex on this site and I posted my own horror stories about the stuff -- I took a lot of flak here as a result. Oh! The stuff is the best thing since sliced bread. Well nanner nanner nanner, I see I'm no longer alone. I especially enjoy the mention of the stuff blowing up from 3/4" to 2" - yeah, been there seen that. O.K., now - how about this NEW, Improved Wonderful MDF? Any comments on it? I love it for indoors, but I spilled a cup of coffee on an unprimed sheet one day and wiped it up a few minutes later and in that time it expanded a permanent blister where the moisture was. By the way, can someone please tell me what was the best thing BEFORE sliced Bread?
posted
My 2 cents on Medex: some of the early signs I carved with Medex back in 80's swelled up. A few years back I was convinced they changed the formulation, or maybe there's a different "brand", because we put a small square if it in a pail of water for months and it never swelled.
The ones that swelled also were attached with screws into the edges, which allowed rain water in which swelled the fibers like a sponge. It's better to put screws through the face.
I've also had success with coating the bare board with boiled linseed oil and letting sit for a few days before priming. Also saw an article in Signs of TImes where one shop waters down wood glue and coats the edges before priming, and I've been trying that lately. Anything that will seal the bare surface, and especially the edges, is important. But I still think the formulation changed at some point...
posted
My very wise mother often said: "It is a sign of intelligence to learn from your mistakes, but it is a double sign to learn from someone else's." One of the advantages of this forum is getting to learn from other's triumphs and failures.
I have had all of the above experiences with Medex and it is not an option for me anymore. To me, if any material requires two coats of primer, several finish coats, two or three coats of UV clear, sanding in between each coat and the sacrifice of my firstborn, it is a sign that I should use a different material.
Some materials are too much trouble. I love building signs but I also have to make a profit to support my family. Exponentially increasing my labor to save a few bucks on material will not put food on the table.
Also, if a material is that finicky, any slight damage during installation may undo all you have tried to accomplish, resulting down the road in an irate customer, you replacing a sign out of your pocket and reduced credibility for you because "You're the expert. You should have known..." Well, by then you do, but too late.
------------------ A Sign of Excellence
Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
i often wondered if the states had medex or was it just the black plaque for european sign writers only! When i first started using it i was delighted to have a product that was uniform and splinter free. the plywood in ireland,even the marine grade, can cause problems and since i like to do a sign that i'm not going to spend the next 4 years worreying about,medex seemed the answer. it turned out so hit and miss with the results that i switched the synthenic products almost entirely.the only place i use wood is in the back supports if signs or in the mouldings (hardwood). i found with medex that even a stone chip on a well finished surface (5-6 coats of paint) could cause a blister with water gaining access over time. death to the stuff i say. by the way i did get all technical data and even the results of our national paint testing center and followed their advice.
------------------ 'To be born once is natural, To be born twice, now that's a miracle. ------------------------------------- From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland,
posted
We have used it, but I would only recommend it to a shop that employs a weight lifter. That stuff is so heavy that you put yourself in a risk of a rupture. Any place where moisture can get in, it will go. Installation has to be done very carefully. Not recommended, let's push it on the quickie sticky shops. Bill Riedel
------------------ Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. Little Ferry, NJ billsr@riedelsignco.com
Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
It seems like we are all looking for the Holy Grail of materials. Smooth, easy-to-paint surface, dimensional stability, carve/route/sandblast-able, weatherproof, structural strength, easily available, and inexpensive. Medex looked like that to a lot of people when it came out, but the wide disparity of experiences with it have made it impossible to justify its continued use. A product that works for some people, some of the time, and fails dramatically for others, is not going to gain a reputation for consistent quality. Every material has its drawbacks. MDO is fine for many applications, but has vulnerable edges that must be sealed properly, and is not good for dimensional work. Redwood, the material of choice for years, has become increasingly expensive and in short supply, with a corresponding decrease in quality. PVC is great - as long as it's not in direct sun or anywhere that has changes in temperature, where it warps, twists, and performs all sorts of other exciting manuevers trying to expand and contract. HDU is probably the best of the new materials, but it too has drawbacks, chiefly it's lack of sructural strength. So we find ourselves doing field experiments with all sorts of materials, knowing that we cannot always trust the manufacturers claims (as is the case with MDF) and coming up with all various strategies for solving problems. Under those circumstances, a forum for sharing info becomes ever more valuable, which reminds me, time to send the Shortreeds a check again.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Guys and gals I started in this business over 12 years ago and at that time everyone said to use crezon plywood. I found in a year the signs were comming back because water was getting in via the edges dispite all effords made to seal them up. I painted fronts and backs double prime double top coats. but it was the edges that were the culprits. At that time Medex was advertising in SignCraft magazine and decided to give it a go. I have had great luck with it to date, have had no come back. If isa a surface install I predrill holes and fill with silicone before putting in screw just to make sure all stays sealed. Now maybe I've just been lucky but I have sign up 10-11 years and still looking great. But one thing is we continully look at trying to push the limits of the product and tools we use, and I don't dought the maufactures are the same. Now I'm not trying to defend them here but I think we all are trying to find the holy grail as I think Cam said above. There are some things that work and some that don't, all we can do is do the best with what we have.
------------------ Pat Welter Masterhand Signs and Designs
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