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Is it recommended that we clear over all oil enamels? The reason I ask, is because, today I'm back on a job I installed just 12 months ago, dry and chalked out already. I used no clear for several reasons, including matching surrounding colors. Also a variety of materials use and applied at different times. I don't usually use clears because, they add another step to the process, they create just one more opportunity for errors..... This job with no clear, looks like it is at least 5 years old. The job really needs buffed to say the least. Although it has surpassed my warrantees, I still want the best for my customers, and if all my jobs are doing this, I'm going to really be upset. I have noticed a loss in luster to several of my jobs. I know some of you use automotive enamels, which I'm sure hold up a bit better, but they aren't as applicable to all substrates as oil enamels and are quite a bit more expensive, and some use the latex acrylics, which last nicely, but really don't have near the color snap that I look for. I hate to think that I'm going to need to clear all my jobs. I really can't stand it over my gild jobs. I had a good friend lose a job on a very large 4000.00 hand painted coca cola sign by clearing it. It hazed out and crazed on him. The colors on my job were bottle green, oyster white both color mixes, but also two of the least problem colors. The paint is the One most of us use.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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The only time I got it to chalk out is if it is thinned too much. I hardly thin but when I have to, use the reducer. OS clear should give it more life...
-------------------- AirbrushBobby.com Clearwater, FL The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.1Cor1:18 “The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord”Rom6:23 Posts: 505 | From: Clearwater Florida USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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hey Jack, guess formulars really do change and so goes another nightmare in the life of a experienced signmaker. Clears aren't the answer but can be just another problem, if signmakers were auto body painters then I could see the use of automotive paints. Re-learning the difference between thinning, reducing and flow can be a major step in performing a premium job which could last for years to come.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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I spray, and get an autobody like finish... I don't think these things are sprayable as they are. Many would be like bubblegum.... I use the OS thinners as recommended and sometime mineral spirits. I have used flow enhansers. I have not checked the condition of where I use OS hardner. I hope this has helped some. I just started with it about 6 months ago, and like the tuffness and cure time it provides.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Jack, that is the very reason that I switched to acrylic latex. It's true that some of the colors are not as bright, although the kind of work I was doing did not incorporate really flashy colors. With the colors I get from Rhino Paint Company I can just about match anything that I was using before.
The automotive colors are a good alternative, but I'm not set up to do spraying, plus I just don't like all that smell.
To me personally, I just have never seen any clear that holds up any better than the paint underneath, but then I haven't tried everything.
The paint companies keep saying the formulas are the same, but something is changing. Some of my signs that are fifteen (or sometimes 20) years old look better than some less than five years old. Just one more adjustment.
My bet is on the acrylics, but then I'm not a pin striper or one that does a lot of spraying of automotive type paints.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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" i still want the best for my customers"...."automotive enamels are more expensive" these 2 dont go together.....if you want the best for your customer, and you dont want background to fade, chalk or use a clear then car paint is your answer. i spray background colors with car paint on MDO, ALUM, MAGNETICS and you can also paint corplast with it!!!! as for it costing more...dont think so. qt of one shot $16-18 bucks, qt of acrylic enamel $18-25. the one shot if sprayed requires only enough reducer to make it sprayable(2-4 oz to 32 oz of paint) car paint is reducable by 50%, 1 qt paint will give you 2 qts of sprayable paint. you can use a/e without the hardner for short term application say 2-5 years. you want it to last 10 add the hardner to the paint. hardner will add more to the cost of painting but i gar-on-tee you wont see it chalk over in less then 5-7 years.as for vividness of colors....have you seen some of the almost flouresent colors that they put on some of these hot rods? guy here in town has a 61 chevy bubble top....and its painted flouesent YELLOW-GREEN!!!!!!!!!NO FADE EITHER!!!!! also while your in the car paint mixing place....ask them if they have any "mismatched paint" these are paint mixes they screwed up on...and didnt hit the color they needed(just a shade off) and most place will sell these for $5-10-15 a gallon just so they dont have to throw them out. i tend to buy the reds, blues, white, off whites, and stay away from metalic paints...its a whole nother ball of wax to spray metalic paint, usually you need years of paint spraying to get this paint sprayed on with out a lot of metalic sags.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Joe, How does your auto paints hold up to painting standard woods like pine, fir, etc. My concerns are that the will peel or shatter off with short age, as these paints dry to a very dry non preserving finish. Are you using a one stage type and is there still a lot of that out there. I may move over to it at least on aluminums. I mix all my own colors and that is another reason why I have hesitated. Maybe I can just choose my colors from the auto color swatches and hope I guess right on amounts. Also what kinds of primers are used. Auto primers don't have any built in preservatives, I don't believe. Those being linseed and the like.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Jack, someone already brought this up but, sounds like "over reducing".
Wheather you use automotive enamel or other enamel, won't matter if you "over reduce", the signs of this problem; fading,filming,"burned out" look,chalking. Sounds like you need the automotive type URETHANES, they are durable,hard,fast dry,lots of color,use with or without clear top coat, just don't over reduce!!
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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jack, most acylic enamel paint is single stage. meaning you can shoot it as color coat and clear coat in one operation. most a/e when they are mixed have a "clear" added to the pigments, this gives them the total one coat applcation. only thing with a/e you can, but dont have to add a hardner. but if you want a long lasting finish yes add hardner. as for painting on wood, you treet the wood to a couple coats of KILZ or BIN or any oil based primer(do not use a latex primer). on any wood, lightly scuff with a 150-180 sandpaper or one of them green 3m scuff pads.wipe with a mineral spirit(just damp not soaked) rag to pick up dust, or by tack rags. apply your primer, allow it to dry for couple hours. then lightly sand with 220-260 paper again wipe down, and shoot it. 1st coat lite, and you can still see the primer in spots, wait 5 min and then lay on 2nd coat to cover, if you want you can then lay on 3rd coat. with a spray gun this dont take long and i set mine outside in the sun to bake for 2-3 hours then its ready for paint or vinyl. ive never had a failure. on alum it same procedure minus the primer...as long as you bought a painted alum. and dont forget to take off the plastic protective flim...i have!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey Jack, Another way to go is to wax your signs a couple of weeks after they are up. It will seal the paint and keep it from chalking as much. You may have to do this every 6-12 months. A shop I know of waxes all of their signs.
If you really want them to last, roll on three coats of Pelucid. It goes over vinyl and oil based paint. It really helps keep the edges from deteriorating.
Cheers
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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