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I purchased some obsolete Sign equipment the other day..the ole guys will probably remember the Thermal Vacuum Machine used to create those hideous plastic embossed signs. Well this thing comes with a lot of supplies (roll plastic in various color) and it also has quite an asstortment of rubber dies (Alphabet sets. logos & Sign layouts) Most of it goofy crap popular in th 60s & 70s,,just wonder if anyone still makes the rubber molds?? There was also A Scott Signgraver (SM 300 & SM 200)machine with all the stuff. (used to engrave Laminated plastic signs and the like. it was complete with all accesories and 3 or 4 font sets...anyone need one?
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I didn't think about that Pat, worth checking out. What I thought I might do, was give it to some organization like the Boy Scouts , but the Tim Taylor in me wants to try the machine out, just to say I've done it..probably give myself 3rd degree burns though.
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You will ALSO be able to take your donation to the museum off your TAXES. Not to mention help preserve the equiptment used to produce signage from days past. I will be donating a Handcrank Operated Vinyl Letter cutting machine(pre computer)! Hoping to deliver MYSELF and visit the museum at the same time.
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yep, there used to be a couple of hand crank machines. I think they were called Let-R-Ons. A roll of acrylic tape ran through the machine. A die was inserted for each letter and you cranked and weeded. A separate die set was required for each typestyle and size. That acrylic tape was the hardest material to peel off a substrate I have ever seen.
I called my supplier to order the larger Let-R-On and he said I should probably look at a new machine called the Gerber Signmaker III that was being unveiled that afternoon. I went to see it and he asked: "Do you STILL want a Let-R-On?" I saw the future.
I used to make drawings with a Varigraph, which was a pantograph machine. A template was inserted and the operator ran a stylus around each letter, moving the template back and forth through the device to access each letter. The machine traced the letters on drafting paper using a Rapidograph pen--the most finicky thing ever made until Windows 95 came out. I had the upgraded Varigraph which allowed me to slant letters and extend them. I have no idea where the Varigraph is but I still have the manual, complete with '60s haircuts and horn rim glasses on the photos of the operators.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5102 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yep, I've got one of those LETERON machines, too. Never used it though. I bought it several years ago from a guy that was going out of business. It looks like he never used it either because the little rolls of vinyl are still intact plus there are no scratches or anything.
I thought it would make a good conversation piece in my older years - of course, that's a long way off yet.
I still have one of those things that projected a letter at a time onto photographic film and then you had to develop the film to set the image. It looked like a new Dodge pickup - it was big. You had to have a completely dark room to operate it plus all the chemicals had to be mixed fresh every few days. It was a mess, but it did the job. I can't remember the name, and I don't want to go dig the thing out of the pile of junk to find out. Maybe it was a Spectograph?
Ah, the good old days.
[ July 25, 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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That thermal vacuum machine has numerous possibilities. At a meeting at Jackson's several years ago, we found we could make simple molds from our carvings that could be sprayed with mold release and poured with resin or plastic mortar. It seemes like a neat asset to be able to make embossed decorations for signs. You don't need to make those plastic signs with it.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6779 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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What about using it to make molds for casting items used for the decorative mouldings used when renovating old buildings. Just use a sample of the existing ones to make duplicates.
-------------------- Bob Sheers 24 Hour Services Columbia, MD USA 410-995-3655 bob@go-to-airport.com Posts: 140 | From: Columbia, MD, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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Raymond; That single letter photographic system is known as a....Phototypogropher Used in the printing trade for pre-press artwork to be used to make negitives when burning plates for the offset press. Yep,used one of them also
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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At the risk of giving away my age (plus or minus ten years or so...)-- Pat, that thing was actually called a Phototypositor, and they were the heat back in the day. No serious typographer would be without one. Used primarily for headlines and display copy. No good at all for paragraph stuff cause you had to expose one letter at a time. Did we have more time back then? I wish I could figure that one out...
-------------------- Jay Nichols ALPHABET SOUP
~the large print giveth and the small print taketh away~ Posts: 176 | From: SW Florida | Registered: Mar 2002
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I had one called fotostar still have the book with all the type styles in it.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I tried to post this on Thursday but my computer locked up as I was typing and it just got up and running again today. One of my gurus spent a few hours here today—we didn’t have to use the chicken bones, eye of newt and toe of frog, although we were close.
When personal computers first started being produced, even before the Apple and IBM, I could not even imagine a scenario where the computer could help me in the sign business. Now, I’m dead in the water when it goes down, given the construction techniques of many parts of the jobs we usually produce, however, I was able to work all day yesterday without it. As I was about to say before I was so rudely interrupted by Bill Gates’ Buggy Nightmare…
I saw one of those Fotostar machines Raymond mentioned at Mike Jackson's Letterhead meet in 1981. It made my wish list but never made it to the budget.
Quite a few of the older timers here also used Presstype and opaque projectors. The Letraset book was a fount of fonts. With the projector, often the letter had to be enlarged in multiple operations, given the need to correct for distortion and being limited by the distance available between the projector and the wall. I'm sure having a long room and considering how dark that long room can get doesn't enter into the planning of the "ideal" shop layout these days.
I drafted upper and lower case alphabet strips of Helvetica Medium, Bold and other typefaces at 2" size on paper so I could blow up and trace on the projector up to 24" height in one enlargement.
When I sold Pioneer Signs and formed A Sign of Excellence in 1983, I vowed not to ever own another opaque projector, a promise I was able to fulfill for that year I bought a Minolta 450Z copier with zoom lens. I used it for quite a few years, zooming lettering up and down in size for presentation drawings and taping together pages for patterns. I also became quite adept at using the “Symbols” font and X/Y moves on the Signmaker IVA to execute drawings. This was the days B.C., Before Computer, at least any affordable that were of much use to the sign trade.
When I say "older timers", I'm sure it is only thought of in the comparative sense between someone who started lettering later in life and those of us who were making signs as babies...OK, I've been doing it since age 19 and have been at it for 31 years, do the math.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5102 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Letraset! Those were the day with binders full of sheets missing this letter or that to complete the job. Off to the Art Store to buy a new panel and watch it dry out before your next assignment.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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