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I have a hard time cutting mdo and other substrates into complicated shapes. I have tried a projector. And I have used my plotter to draw an outline. Neither way works real well. How do you do it?
-------------------- Scott Patterson Creative Signs & Graphics Lily, KY kscott98@msn.com
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with Excellence! Posts: 52 | From: Lily, Ky, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Scott..I buy rolls of REALLY CHEAP vinyl and use a pen in the plotter to draw the shapes. Then just stick the vinyl onto the MDO and use a jig saw to cut the shapes. Then pull off the vinyl and throw it away.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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I had been drawing patterns on paper. Trying to tape them down. Of course sawing through the tape ruins that method. Good Idea Dave. Somehow I did'nt think of vinyl!
-------------------- Scott Patterson Creative Signs & Graphics Lily, KY kscott98@msn.com
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with Excellence! Posts: 52 | From: Lily, Ky, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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regardless of how you transfer the shape to the MDO, the first thing you need is a good heavy duty jig-saw.
the work is not over with once you have a "rough" cut.
the edges require a lot of sanding to "shape" the panel.(i use a belt sander with a medium grit paper) cutting with the jig-saw is a lot like following a line with a brush, it takes some practice cutting a line in a fluid manner.)
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Scott, I just recently did like Dave does. I cut the shape in vinyl, and applied it to the mdo. Worked great. The paper works good for me too. Just be sure and tape it down in several areas before you cut, to keep the paper from rolling up. Ive got a decent jigsaw, but I am planning on getting a better one soon. Make sure you use one that has variable speed. Makes it much easier. Also, like Mark said, sand the edges really good, even if you are sealing them with wood filler or whatever.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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I think vinyl is a great idea, but if you like using paper. Instead of using tape to hold the paper down, use a adhesive spray glue (3m 77) and when you use your jig saw use a blade for fine cuts then do your sanding. Oh yeah place the paper on the back, the front will have a cleaner cut.
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I use the paper glued down with spray adhesive method and if I have a multiple of 2 or more I cut use the first one as a template and clamp it to the next and cut it out with a straight cut router bit, bearing wheel on top to ride against the firstone as it cuts the second one, four, five, or twenty they all are perfect match to the first one.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Janet is right as usual. If you do quite a bit of this work, and it sounds like you do. And you really want to be up to speed and do much better work consistently than with a jig saw, invest in a Cutawl. It's a marvelous machine that will cut just about anything as precisely as you would ever want to do it. The problem with jig saws no matter how good they are, is that you will always get blade deflection and that's not a good thing. With a Cutawl you can do paper, cloth, leather, foam, plywood, sheet metal, thick steel and aluminum and other metals. The possibilities are endless due to the wide variety of blade configurations, blade lengths and machine adjustments available. You will have to find a real sign supply to get one. You'll get the deer in the headlights look at the vinyl places. If you have trouble finding it, email me and I'll get out my instruction book and get you the factory phone number. The key is the quality and production that it will allow you to do. Mine is way over 20 years old and you just can't kill these machines. Once you own one, you'll never be sorry or use anything else for these jobs.
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I find the high color contrasting vinyl method works well for small stuff, but gets rather expensive for larger jobs. I prefer th use a pounce pattern and get a can of spray fixitive or cheap laquer hair spray and give a light spray over the pounced lines. This will prevent them from rubbing off or blowing away.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've used the pounce pattern and adhesive spray many times and it works great on wood blanks which you are going to sand afterwards. I use the cheap vinyl now because it's easier, less messy, you don't have to breathe the spray and it doesn't leave any adhesive behind.
You will want an ORBITAL sabre saw because it cuts 10 times as fast as a "conventional" one and leaves less saw marks to have to sand. Also, as metioned above, use the finer toothed blades. Mine is a Porter Cable and it has guide blocks just like a bandsaw does. It helps keep the blade from straying to one side or the other when cutting through 2x material. I have even cut out a few 3.5'' thick redwood and cedar signblanks with it using a 5'' blade.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7405 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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The suggestion on using an orbital sabre saw is good. Look for a 4 amp motor or so, for power. The foot that gives the blade its orbital action also helps stabilize it for better cuts. The orbital action unloads waste very efficiently and cuts much faster than a saw that just goes up and down. Here's another suggestion. Use a tapered or hollow ground blade. I get them from Sears. They have 20 teeth per inch and when you make a cut it looks like it's already been sanded! Don't push them too hard, though, or they will heat up and break.
Brad in Kansas
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I use cheap vinyl and a Bosch jigsaw. I used to make car stereo boxes and went trough two dozen or so cheapie jig saws and then it donged on me what my high school shop teacher said "buy one good tool and it'll last a lifetime or close to it and do the job better." My Bosch is an orbital action and it runs through anything like butter and it doesn't do any of that "tilted" cut stuff like you get with a cheapie. $165 well spent.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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If I'm cutting a large oval, I draw it out on a computer and plot just 1/4 or one half of it on paper. You can draw big cross lines (X and Y centers) on your substrate, and use it to align the paper pattern. Use a dark spray to ghost an image (like pouncing)directly onto the substrate. Just move the pattern and line up. I keep the patterns for future use. Rather quick and easy. It should work on any shaped form.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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I suppose in some measure this is related to the thread about computer skills and such. We have a Gerber Sprint cnc router. Once we have designed the shape, no matter how complicated and it's in the computer, I just send it to the router and bam! there's my panel. On rare occasions, we do it the "old fashion " way. We use a pounce pattern and a Cutawl or jig saw. Also a shop full of various files and rasps, belt sanders and other goodies. Mike McCloud and Janette are right on the mark. If you don't have a cnc and are going to be cutting lots of panel with complicated shapes, get a pounce wheel and a Cutawl. Just my two cents. Good luck.
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Steve Nuttle and Mike McCloud, I remember years ago in the literature on Cutawls that they required some practice to cut with them, is this right? How much are they and how long to become proficient with them?
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2786 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I use pounce patterns, but if it is one or two and you need a crisp line to follow, I put carbon paper behind the pattern and trace, presto, it transfers the dark crisp shape in no time and you don't have to draw again to connect the pounce shapes. Just be sure to tape very well so it doesn't shift. Question: for a symmetrical shape that is over 30 inches, can a 15 inch plotter draw it? I thought one half could be drawn to produce a 30 inch shape (folded in half) and just wondered if anyone had a trick to make a larger one?.(I still have this old battle ax gerber 4B.)
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Dittos to what Brad said. Also, don't be stingy with the blades. A sharp blade is safer to use, requires less effort, and saves valuable sanding time.
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David, I can't help you on the price, since our Cutawl was in the shop when I started. I didn't find it that hard to learn to use it. It takes a bit of getting used to and I practiced on a bunch of scraps first. To me it was like learning any other tool operation. Every thing has a learning curve but I don't think learning the Cutawl was has hard as mastering my Gerber Sprint cnc. LOL! Handy tool to have in the shop that Cutawl is. If you want, I have the address of the mfg.
Steve
[ July 27, 2002, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Steve Nuttle ]
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