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I currently use light blue chalk (like carpenters put in chalk lines), in one of my kid's old socks to pounce with. Crude but effective - and very messy. I heard a rumor that real, live professional sign painters have a tool especially made for this purpose. Can anyone tell me what it's called, and where to get one? Thanks!
-------------------- Ben Sherr Street Metal Custom Auto Art 3006 River Rd Hopewell, Va 23860 (804)452-1540 Bjay65@msn.com Posts: 77 | From: Hopewell, Virginia | Registered: Mar 2002
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We have a couple of ways. We use an old sock too, but we "pat" it on and then rub hard with a clean cloth. It forces the chalk through very well. And I think we're "real sign painters", no? If it's complicated lettering or a logo, we then spray it with a fast drying clear. That keeps the lines from getting brushed away. Sometimes we also use a fast drying spray can right on the pattern. If you're only using it 2 times it works well.
I should have said that we only use the clear if its being done on a carving, not a painted panel.
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Ben, I think you will find pouncing to be a messy proposition no matter what you use. The sock method works well, and I use powdered charcoal for light surfaces, and either baby powder, or cornstarch on dark surfaces. Powdered charcoal though will give a whole new meaning to messy-- it gets on everything, not the least of which will be on your hands and up your nose.
On using pounce patterns--if you haven't found out already--- index marks on the pattern and the vehicle or panel help a lot if you have to re-pounce. Also, if multiple lines of copy, cover the lines below whatever you are working on with a piece of body shop masking paper--the kind that has a strip of masking tape on one edge. It helps to prevent wiping off those lower lines with your hands.
Right about now, the proponents of mahlstickery will be along, and I will once more be taken to task, or the woodshed, or behind the barn, or someplace else, for being a hand over hand painter. Ah, well, such is life.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Speaking of pouncing...........As Bill points out, it is quite messy. How do other painters keep from getting powder in the paint? I spend way too much time trying to wipe the excess off, and still end up with "flat" spots caused by powder in the paint. What am I not doing to prevent this?
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Ben, if you can't get the Hansee Pounce Pad, try using a tighter weave cloth for your bag, the best is linen table napkins from the linen rental places, or their tablecloths. they sell them as "white rags" after they show obvious wear and can't rent them anymore.Long story, good bag. lay out a 12"x12" piece pour in powder, put a balled up chunk of cloth on top, gather cloth up tight, wrap 3/4" masking tape to secure, less messy bag. You can use a charcoal stick, lightly run over perfed lines, rub with rag, same effect. For small and detailed work, try Saral Paper, a wax-free Non carbon paper, comes in white,blue,yellow,black and red. cleans off with water, use line carbon paper. Available at Michaels Craft Stores, made in Bohemia, N.Y.
next, let the brush fun begin!
John / BTG
ps, Mahlstickery..... Bill, thats a great word!! you could get into lots of adventures with it!!
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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In answer to Mike's question about not having much of a mess and another way to solve Bill's dilemma with smudging the pattern while working hand over hand,....first make a very fine and accurate pattern,...then try "dusting" it with Lacquer from an airbrush to make for a permanent pattern you can't smudge and won't mix in with size or paint,...hope this helps ya,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Spud, you may be pouncing too vigorously---try Rosemary's method of patting more lightly, and then rubbing across the pattern with the pounce bag. Also, when you cut the pattern, be sure to lightly sand the opposite side of the pattern to open up the holes. A light touch with compressed air might help get rid of some--but not all-- of the excess powder. Too much though, and the whole pattern/print disappears.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Another issue is the method of pouncing itself. I have used electropounce for close to 20 years and love it. Because the electropounce burns tiny holes instead of punching, the powder goes through to the surface easily and evenly.
I also use the sock method. I keep a black charcoal, blue chaulk, and whiting (from an old fashioned paint store). Great use for those "single" socks.
Bruce Deveau
-------------------- Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 Posts: 139 | From: Amesbury, MA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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That blue stuff can be mighty hard to clean off, and sometimes the black charcoal is, too. BTW, I understand charcoal dust breathed in eventually causes cancer of the testicals, so wear a mask and/or go lightly with the bag. I sometimes use a bag with a mix of black with white chalk, it makes a grey that can be seen OK on a light surface and doesn't discolor the paint as much and also cleans off well. Another thing you may want to use in a bag for lettering with red or yellow is Tripoli or Rottenstone, it's a red color powder that doesn't stain the background and mixes in with R&Y colors. Barely shows up, though. For white I don't know why anybody would use baby powder - they make white chalk for that very purpose and you can see it. Hardware stores...
If you are using a pounce wheel be sure to sand the back side of your pattern lightly to open up the pores you just poked into the paper, otherwise the fibers will re-close the holes as you rub.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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i too have been using the "electro-pounce" for many years now.
against a well grounded metal surface you can adjust the hole size by the voltage and thickness of the paper, along with the size of the letter you are trying to "pounce".
the bigger the letter, the less "information" you need to pull the brush.(bigger holes, futher apart)
i find pen plotting on paper, then hand perforating with the "electro-pounce" works well with small letters that i wish to hand letter.
i use a sports tube-sock filled with either dark or light material to pounce. some great medium has been mentioned above, from blue chalkline chalk to cornstarch.
experiment.
have fun with it.
[ July 23, 2002, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Mark Fair Signs ]
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Mike Languein also uses an Electro Pounce and I ought to know. I sold my extra one to him years back. I not only use an Electro-Pounce but also use a Feltman compressor powered machine gun like the ones used in the "Shoot out the Star" game at carnivals, I use for chasing chronic complaining customers away
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Besides using Hansee,baby socks are my favorite, soft,small, and cute and they seem to give you a lighter touch. As far as excess powder on a sign, you take off by pressing rag directly "head-on" lightly to surface to help remove. Also if your bag is a "bleeder" you can pounce the pattern while it's laying flat,then position into place,then rub with clean rag. If out of pounce use chalk or vine charcoal rubbing across pattern while flat, put into position and then rub.
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Back in the good old brain-dead days of my youth (well actually only 7 years ago) I had the opportunity to electro-pounce a line against a metal straight edge.
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When pouncing your pattern use good butcher paper-take sand paper 220 and lightly go over the back and then front to remove loose pieces of paper.This will open the holes and allow the powder to settle on the panel.Also dont need as much pouncing powder.
-------------------- Randall Campbell Randy's Graphics, 420 Fairfield N. Hamilton Ontario Canada Posts: 2857 | From: Hamilton Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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Wheel Pounce or Electro Zapper..Have both will travel..
Depending on pattern work but most times I use Chaulk Sticks (Crayola) Multi colour packs. Or track image area with blunt Stabilo pencil around the perforation.... Less mess to work with and less worries about losing the image.
Raven/2002
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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Lots of info, all of it good, and all of it appreciated. Thanks again to all.
-------------------- Ben Sherr Street Metal Custom Auto Art 3006 River Rd Hopewell, Va 23860 (804)452-1540 Bjay65@msn.com Posts: 77 | From: Hopewell, Virginia | Registered: Mar 2002
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Even if you decide not to use the Hancy Pounce Pads, by all means use their pounce powder. The black and the white are both specially formulated to not cause your paint to crawl away from them as with most other powders and they tend to not dust through the air as much as the others. Hence, less mess.
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Just like a person who is moving, I use Bags and Boxes like the above folks mentioned. To keep clean, I use a Plastic Bread Bag that I put my hand in while pouncing, then turn it inside out when done and you have a bag to carry it. If I'm in a hurry, and I do happen to get dirty anyway, I try to incorporate a Fried Chicken Dinner in my days schedule to cleanse the paws (works everytime)!
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
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Mike L., Your revelation that charcoal powder causes cancer was very sobering. It proves that even the most innocent appearing substances should be treated with respect. We have built a 'pounce booth' at our shop, and, with appropriate protective equipment, I think we have significantly reduced the risk of testicular cancer. Our worst problem was when our designated pouncer's feet turned black. As you may have guessed, he was wearing the pounce bags.
Brad in Kansas
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Brad, I know two guys that paint billboards. They use the biggest pounce bags I've ever seen, a towel with about 3 or 4 pounds of charcoal in there. They complain of the mess it makes and continue to do it. They are both having kids, building families, so one might think they'd want to be more careful. Even if it isn't killing anybody why make such a mess?
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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