posted
Getting the trick of fine looking gold leaf sure is diffulcult. I've tried slow size but my end result still doesnt look as shiny and bright as ive seen in other work. Is there some kind of paint or other medium to really get a "see down the road" shine. Or perhaps theres still more too do. Also for best results should i gold leaf individual letters then attach to sign foam background. Or do i gold leaf raised routed text. Sure is messy that way. Any Clear coat makes it bright? Thanks for the tons of questions
Thanks
-------------------- Signs Solutions, Inc. Matthew Rossi Midlothian, VA, 23113 signsol@earthlink.net Posts: 139 | From: Midlothian, Virginia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
In my opinion there is nothing that you can put over the gold to make it brighter - clear will only dull the finish and shorten its life.
Slow size will hold a tack for days, so I would wait at least 24 hours before gilding. The results should be very shinny. Some people prefer a more matte finish to the gold than the extremely shinny look. I would suggest that you experiment with some different gilding times and determine which is best for you.
The gild will only be as smooth as what is under it, so it is important to put several coats of paint on the area to receive the gold. After two coats of primer, I usually put several coats of One Shot and sand lightly between each coat.
Whether to gild the letters as a raised area of the background or cut the letters out, gild, and then apply is a matter of choice. Of course, the cut out letters are going to consume more time and thus you would charge more for them. I've got several jobs in the shop right now that will be gilded - one will have individual letters cut from 30# Precision Board, incised carved, gilded, and then applied to the background - and another job will be blasted 18# Precision Board with the smooth letters gilded - with no carving or treatment. Visual results are different and one is more expensive than the other.
I use patent gold although loose leaf is good for more intricate work. My patent gold is Crocodile Brand - 23k, from Sepp Leaf Products.
Good luck.
[ July 17, 2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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At the risk of self-promotion, you may consider attending the mars meet at the end of August. I will lead a gold leaf workshop that should explain most of your concerns. In addition to what Raymond said, I suggest the book Gold Leaf Techniques by Kent Smith/Leblanc. It is an invaluable resource.
Bruce Deveau
-------------------- Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 Posts: 139 | From: Amesbury, MA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I use Guisto Manetti patent leaf and German Loose leaf. You can use either one on surface gilding but alot of people are split on what to use on carved or raised letters. Cam Bortz has a cool way to do Gemini letters that produces a mirror finish. I use patent leaf and slow size with good results. Liek anything, especially something this delicate it takes practice!
Yes Bruce you do sound a little bit self promoting... but just a bit. I would recommend some hands on, Bruce has got the gold trick book up his sleeve. I wish I was going to mars, but I wouldn't get past customs at the moon!
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Low shine is almost always a result of drowned leaf. The size should be just about dry to the light touch of the back of your finger. If it feels all but cured, it's probably almost ready to guild. As a rule slow size shouldn't be cleared over as it takes a long time for the solvents to gas out and this blushes the clear and causes a much shortened life. On a vehicle door, fire truck, etc. quick size is the usual choice because it will be cleared over for protection. Try to work with new size each brush load and avoid over thinning, it will make the drying from letter to letter and section to section inconsistent. When you use quick size however, let the guild dry as long as you can hold the customer off before clearing. Wait AT LEAST till the next day to clear the job. If the customer can't wait, sometimes it's better to let the job go to somebody else who wants to put up with the problems that rushing the job usually brings down the road. And remember, no mater how much they rushed you, it WILL BE your fault and you WILL be expected to redue it on your nickle. Wehring & Billmeyer Goldleaf from Chicago has been the consistently highest quality for me over the years.
posted
I don't have anywhere near the experience with gold leafing that a lot of folks here do...but I have been pretty lucky with surface guilding. It seems that in the last week or so the question on the brillance of the finished guild keeps comming up....and on this post the topic of drowning the guild as the problem struck one of my last brain cells! I was taught to apply just a thin coat of size, a very thin coat....unlike what I would do for a painted letter. Am I on to something?....or just on something? ....BRUCE, HELP!!!
Joe, Makin Chips and Havin Fun!...On Mars!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Joe,...drowning is when the gold burys into wet size. Often as not the gilder hasn't given the size proper time to tack and the size is either skinned over and or not dry ,when this happens. I agree with those responses above,...the longer you wait to gild the higher the lustre of the gild.The layer of size only needs to be a minimum thickness and overlaps in brush strokes often as not can take longer to dry thus drowning can occur. The only sure fire way to avoid this is a test swatch of size somewhere out of site or on another test piece prepared in and at the same time and way the panel or piece to be gilded is,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks Tim, Thats pretty much what I thought....I always do a test strip on a tin can...I can leave all the knukle marks I want! I just thought the newbes might be puttin down too much size which would throw off the time frames....I remember my first leaf job...in college...I couldn't wait to put that leaf down. If I was told 24 hrs...I knew I couldn't wait 25 hrs...anyway I learned later I was puttin the size on too heavy! Is it true that a heavy size coat isn't as durable as a thin one? For exterior. Thanks again Tim!
Joe, Makin Chips and Havin Fun!...On Mars!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Just a couple of thoughts to add. Yes thinner is better as too thick a layer of size will dry more unevenly and be more subject to drowning the leaf as well a exhibiting gold bloom (size oozing through the porosity of the gold and dulling the finish. Also, minimize brushing back and forth but flow the size on in even strokes which will lay down a more even layer of size. Slower size mixes will also level out better. As a matter of preference, I typically gild on slow size after a couple of days or so for the best brilliance but usually not after two weeks. Check pages 80-84 for more suggestions and ideas.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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....BRUCE, HELP!!!
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