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Pat, I am curious what is your definition of "Offended". I re-read that thread and could see a few folks you may be referring to, myself included. Is having a different opinion then the resident duck-head qualify as being offended?
I'd actually be more interested in your definition of guilty. The topic was "blame" and appeared to be about where people place their blame with regard to lack of success in their sign business.
So you feel that "only the guilty were offended" I can only speak for myself, but can honestly say that, although I disagree, I took no offense to your comments about the new generation of sign artists blaming this, that, or the other. I do however take offense to your imparting of some "guilty" verdict to un-named parties for un-named violations of you personal code of conduct. (conduckt ?) Why duck the issue, no need to chicken out here, speak your piece. We won't cry fowl!
While I'm at it I will go on to say that I recall my very first post on the BB, was on a topic where you, Pat King, were more or less condemming all newbies, visitors, & lurkers who did not join in, stick around, or fully "get" what is so great about Letterheads. I did not try to search out that thread, but I had replied that, as a new visitor, I didn't see why those kind of negative generalizations were expected to encourage positive participation. As you may recall, you emailed me back with some arrogant comments about how I should look inside myself to find out why I took offense to your post.
Well since you have mastered looking within & being able to place all the blame on yourself for any flaws in your sign & design skills, may I suggest that you find time between living & breathing signology to look closer at your social skills. Just a little constructive criticism, no offesnse intended. Like water off a ducks back right?
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My first design job out of college was with a firm that at the time had a one-man art department. I was the second guy. The guy I worked with was a retired designer from General Motors. He was fairly talented...went to the Chicago Art Institute as a young man, etc.
He was the meanest, laziest, most arrogant SOB I ever met! He hated the fact that a "young guy" was suddenly plopped into his turf. He wouldn't talk to me, let alone share any of his knowledge.
I once asked him how to do something, which I don't even recall what....but I will never forget his snide comment of, "What did teach you at college, anyway?!!"
I asked him once why he never talked and he replied, "I didn't know I was REQUIRED to!". No kidding...that was his exact response.
This guy would come to work late, leave early, and take 2 1/2 hr lunches. I finally got justice when he went on a week vacation and didn't come back till two weeks later. While he was AWOL, the company got ****ed and hired another young guy to help me. We bonded immediately...both of us hard workers and eager to learn. The ol' fart came back and we double teamed him to make his life miserable.
He used to leave his nasty cigarettes burning in our very small office knowing we couldn't stand his smoke. So we would let a drip of water off our opaque brushes drop on his burning ash and it would go out without a trace. Rearrange all the tools on his desk...you know, the usual revenge tactics in an artroom.
I remember when we had to cut vinyl logos for a large manufacturer's product till production could ramp up. Back before plotters. We had to make photocopy enlargements and paste them together, tape them over the vinyl, and then cut through the photocopies and vinyl without cutting into the backing paper. I got so I could circumcise a gnat if requested. Anyway, I outcut him 20 logos to 5, and they were as smooth as a plotter cut today.
My point is this....people are people....and there were/are plenty of old generation folks that are lazy, grumpy, mean, arrogant, cheats, and thieves the same as today's generation.
If it came down to learning from an arrogant grumpy old fart or learning it myself the hard way through other avenues, I'd rather do it myself.
Now if a kind older master was willing to teach me some of his technique in a friendly, patient fashion....I would absorb his knowledge like a sponge.
By the way....speaking of sponges....how many people find it necessary to use a sea sponge around their house as opposed to the common cellulose sponges sold nowadays? Technology is great isn't it? The Eureka vs the broom, the car vs the horse, the lightbulb vs the candle, the porcelan toilet and toiletpaper vs an old stump and a handfull of bug infested leaves.....technology isn't always a bad thing.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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todd...maybe he was able to see your charming personality...without ever speaking to you....heheheheheheheheheheheh
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hahaha...good one Bob...I just discovered that "tp" recently. Before that I used to run out in the lawn howling and screamin' and scraping my butt along the grass...
Actually, a guy I work with has a father-in-law that was stationed in/or around Kuwait during the desert storm. He said over there they don't have toilet paper as we know it here in the US. He said if they had a paper at all, it was a product that closely resembled the makeup of "wax paper". He said they used their fingers and then wiped it off on this wax paper. Needless to say, he claimed that the people over there stunk like crap and you wouldn't dare shake their hands. Yuuuckkk.
More bathroom facts: A recent study suggests that less than 50% of people in the US wash their hands after visiting the restroom. I thought that was kind of a generous figure actually.
OP: You crack me up buddy! I'm gonna go drink a V8 in your honor! Hehehee.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Hehehe...that's quite alright Bill. The Xacto knife has become an extension of my hand...I'm certain I could perform the delicate surgery of removing a gnats "excess bagage" with such precision as to make a sex change surgeon jealous. I have not received requests for this procedure as of this date, but feel fully confident it could be performed quickly, and flawlessly with a minimal amount of pain to the insect. After all, his "thingamajig" couldn't be much more than a mil thick could it? Hehehehe
Here's another tip/trick I mastered over the years: I can wield a squeegee between thumb and outside of index finger and throw it like a ninja star with pinpoint accuracy and deadly force. I practiced this on pop cans and I'm telling you, having one of those gold squeegees in your pocket on the job can be as comforting as having a loaded handgun in a nasty neighborhood. Properly trained, you can deliver a debilitating blow to any would-be assailant trying to relieve you of your hard earned signshop dollars.
I had a dual once (in my younger less mature days) with a 6'8" 325 Lb co-worker and popped him in the forehead between the eyes. He was fully stunned and unable to speak for a full 10 minutes. The welt took 3 days to subside.
Don't try this at home or in the presence of young kids....trust me...it's very dangerous and better left to the professionals.
Alright...the gnat thing might be a stretch...but the squeegee story is pretty much legit.
Have a good one.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Speaking of Ninja stars and soda cans, when I lived in new mexico, we couldn't buy beer on Sundays. We would buy extra on Saturday, but then we would drink it anyway (I too was younger & less mature ) Anyway several Sundays would arrive & by afternoon a few buddies & I would realize that there was 2 or 3 cold cans of beer, but 4 or 5 of us wanting to partake. I came up with the idea of Ninja star throwing from 20 paces. when you would puncture the can you would run up & shotgun the whole thing. If you set the pace distance right 3 cans of beer would occupy & entertain 5 guys for an hour.
That's a great game! Remember the old game called "lawn jarts (or darts)? We used to have great fun dodging those things. They yanked them off the shelves because too many kids were gettin' stuck in the head. But when played properly...it was a great game.
Now that would be interesting too....launch a lawn jart high up into the air in hopes of punching the pull tab out of the can. Hehe
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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The Xacto knife has become an extension of my hand...I'm certain I could perform the delicate surgery of removing a gnats "excess bagage" with such precision as to make a sex change surgeon jealous. 
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