posted
THIS HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BEFORE IN OTHER POSTS, BUT NOW IT'S OFFICIAL:
(taken from a press release) KINKO'S is taking on the Sign & Banner business. Sign & Banner Centers will appear in major outlets shortly, and eventually in most of the 1100 locations around the world. 24 hr. turnaround....free pickup, delivery & shipping.Equipment will be HP and GERBER, with the ability to print on vinyl,PVC, aluminum, coroplast, & magnetic products.Specially trained personnel willman the separate counter locations within the KINKO'S operation.
Well, this can be either a good or bad thing, but one thing is for sure.....THE PIE WILL GET CUT EVEN FURTHER! Welcome to WALLY-WORLD!!!!!
posted
It could be a good thing. Office depot offers the service about 1 mile from one of my shops. There prices are so crazy it actually helps my business. The people that are employeed their are a bunch of college kids who could care less. Nothing creative about it at all. It Is the Best compition for me. It might be a little differen't with the Kinko people though, Thats kinda there business anyway. Ken
[ July 06, 2002, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: KEN SCOTT ]
-------------------- Kenneth Scott Ken's Custom Tees 311 River Road Cumberland, Ky 40823 kenscott@setel.com Posts: 31 | From: Cumberland Kentucky | Registered: May 2002
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This issue was adressed on another sign board. All I know is that Kinko's had a sign department in a location near us. It didn't last all that long. I believe it was about a year or so.
The work was uncreative and fairly high priced. job for. The help was incapable , unknowlegable, and uninspired.
Whether anyone wants to admit it, Kinko's is going to do a far better job marketing themselves than 93.8% of the shops around.
Kinko's is going to serve the market of the "I got to have it right now" crowd. They can have that type of work as far as I am concerned. I won't become a part of the bottom feeding mentality of "faster and cheaper". Never have and never will. I do not consider Kinko's to be a serious threat to my client base. Neither should most of you.
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Bob; how do they plan on printing onto all those materials. I don't get it. I checked gerbers site and this seems to be their biggest machine. Prints on vinyl only... Please explain... If they can print directly onto all the materials, that could pose a good threat. If they have to apply vinyl that's another thing. As far as customers wanting fast signs, unless the sign is for their ego; striping, house sign, boat sign so on, people want a sign to help them make money. They don't want to wait while some artist gets inspired!
-------------------- Brian Crothers CR Signs 1790 C Tamarac St. Campbell River B.C. V9W 3M6 briancrothers@crsigns.ca Posts: 82 | From: Campbell River B.C. Canada | Registered: Apr 2002
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I feel VERY confident in stating that the machine pictured above will not be the machine being used. Check out details for the “Edge” on Gerber’s website.
Feels good to post that link to a merchant, thanx guys!
-------------------- Bob Gilliland InKnowVative Communications Harrisburg PA, USA
"The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin Posts: 642 | From: Harrisburg, PA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
They use the HP 5000 60" large format printer, it's a top dog for a printer with high resolution. I was hired as their new manager for Kinkos Sign Department two days ago, Thank you...thank you very much. Ok just kiddin! Will they be a threat to you, who knows, the way the sign business is getting, everybody with a plotter is a threat. But the ones that are a "real threat" are the ones (not Kinkos, or the speedy right now sign co's ) who know how to design and use that computer machine to it's fullest capacity. Just because a person has a computer with all the latest bells and whistles doesn't make them a sign designer, but if the desire is there, he/she will achieve their goal. let the good times roll!
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I'll bet those guys wil be putting out some of the most "commercial" looking crap there is. They won't make realy custom designed stuff either probably. Especially with 24 hour turnaround. They will probably only do simple, prefab layouts with few if any effects or fancy things. Probably only plain, jane stuff. Maybe a photo-realistic print job or something but nothing like most of us on this board probably do so I wouldn't worry. If people want a new logo idea that looks decent and the really good, fancier type sign stuff, they will still come to us guys. Just another place for the "el cheapo price checker, gotta have it now guys" to go. I won't miss 'em.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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At our local botanical gardens, I saw these new signs where the text and photos seemed to be embedded into the surface of a plastic similar to Sintra. A real nice job, on rigid material, with a three plus year out in the sun life. The director of the gardens was telling me he's getting them at around $2 a square foot.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
No matter what kind of crap they may or may not turn out,the point is.....THEY'LL BE EATING INTO OUR BUSINESS at the "bread and butter" end. We'ed all love to turn out just "masterpiece" stuff, but, let's face it, a good part of our work is the "everyday" kind of thing that these new jokers will be cranking out. For the most part, the customer only understands "now and cheap". I think this is where the problem will be!
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At $2 a square ft. that means he could get a 4 X 8 for $64, now I know that they won't be making signs for long. All those big companies are all the time looking for a new niche and they'll spend BIG bucks dipping their toes in the water but they'll have to make more than that to pay for the HUGE added overhead something like they are taking on brings with it. Or they'll just sit there and count it off as a loss and do it forever. WHo knows? Like Bob said it is turning into a Wally world and I guess Kinkos wants to be the Wally of the printing/sign world. Of course, I am just a dumb old redneck so what do I know?
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I think the wise thing here is to see how this will effect our own businesses and then make adjustment as necessary.
If you want to see what they will be offering go to their website nad click on signs & banners.
thier signs don't look bad folks, they will be stealing a lot of current shops business, but then didn't most of us when we opened up too. It's the circle of life guys & girls. Eat or be eaten.
there is no better time to create a niche.
But as usual the strong will survive, as you can see most of their stuff will be cash and carry, for the do it your selfer. as far as I'm concernd they will not put me out of business they will weed out the pain in the a**es.
[ July 07, 2002, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:but then didn't most of us when we opened up too. It's the circle of life guys & girls. Eat or be eaten.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Yep new signmakers are popping up all over BOB. Today I get this call from a customer who wants her phone number changed on 3 A-Boards. I gave her my price, and she proceeds to say a friend in her church has a plotter now, and can do the letters for MUCH cheaper. well hey GO FOR IT. Work yer ass off for 20.00.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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I will watch what Kinko's does to a point. The points I brought up before still hold for me. At this time, I have no idea of what Kinko's pricing policies will be but I will bet that they will require a deposit and that the job will be paid for when it leaves.
I don't think that the low ball crowd will be beating a path to Kinko's because of their policies but they will bite into the "bread and butter" type work. I feel this will be accomplished by attracting a one stop type shopping experience for a customer.
Someone will go to Kinko's to order some business cards and may walk out after buying some job site signs and a set of magnetic signs for their truck.
Kinko's will not be able to offer a majority of the services that some of us can provide. I doubt that the wage structure is going to attract major talent to come and ply their trades there.
We are going to have to have a wait and see attitude as far how all this is going to play out.
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Yall, for one thing, we on this board are for the most part independantly owned by ourselves AND we can make our own decisions about jobs. Even FastSigns and the such are franchised making them to a point, an independantly owned business letting the owner make choices on his/her own. Kinkos is going to be a coperate beauracracy with a coperate chain of command that sets up rules and guidelines for the peeons down the chain(the ones making the signs) to follow leaving them with something we have and they won't. THE freedom to go the extra mile, do something out of bounds, say "well I haven't done something like that before but I'm willing to try", or take a little extra time to do something just a little special just to do a really good job. They will have all of these rules and guidelines to follow AND just because their work looks WAY GOOD on the internet doesn't mean that is what folks wiil get at every Kinkos. Everything in a coperate type business that sells to at the public level like Kinkos is based around profit. You have to do this in this much time, you can only do this when it is like this and that when it is like that. The managers in places like that are inticed to cut corners by offering bonuses if they save money or make bigger profits ANYWAY they can. I know, I worked as a manager for a chain store one time AND I was forced to do things that I would have never done in my own business.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I think Bob R is right...they WILL take business...and it WILL be for the people that want something 10 seconds ago and probably won't care that it isn't close to as good as what most of us would do.
And I must agree....those kinds of people are the ones I'd rather not do work for.....but I'm not in it full time either, so I may not have the same perspective or concerns as many.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Once again bob burns tells it the way it is, another slice of the pie gone some of my best profit work is knock out stuff, it's true they will be hiring help that will have little experience they will gain the experience , then go buy some cheap plotter and a printer another instant sign shop, the sign business will never be as fun as it once was. The sign business is about as much fun as selling flowers or fillimg vending machines and takes about as much skill.
-------------------- Scott Moyer Canadensis, Pennsylvania 570-595-0310 Posts: 111 | From: Canadensis PA. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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If Kinkos (or other competitors) are of serious concern to you, try spending some time to complete a more thorough SWOT analysis than the one below. Heck, do it as a group if you want. This can serve as the basis for some solid strategic planning.
Weaknesses Inexperience, printed graphics only (no installation services), high overhead cost of location(s), more rigid policies, etc.
Opportunities Evaluate (by SWOT analysis) your own business to identify competitive strengths you can exploit to your own advantage. What unique ways do you (or can you find to) add value? Do you have any Sustainable Competitive Advantage(s) (this is "marketing speak" for the goose that laid the golden egg). How can you improve upon your strengths in the short, medium, and long term?
Threats Kinkos will take business from you. What business? Do you really need it? How profitable is it? How can you protect it? SWOT your own business to evaluate your weaknesses. What can you do to shore them up in the short, medium and long term?
[ July 11, 2002, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Brother Jon, Now you're getting technical on us. S.W.O.T.ing at flies and analylital examination and all that. Those big guys will pick up the signmaking and identify it as it's loss leader for 3-5 years and carry the load until, they decide to write it off. That will hurt us in a several ways. The the printed decal market will head their way and the demand for vinyl stickers will be less due to the available digital print. The price will be set by an accountant, and you can bet, it will be set low to attract business. The banner market will go their way, because, that is what they see as the "quickest money." An overabundance of banner advertising will hack off a bunch of regulatory agencies and beautification folks. So we have to place our faith in our young people. Yes the young. We must pray that the little pricks steal enough product and material for the corporate types to see the error in their thinking quickly.
The point of the exercise that I propose above is this: Kinkos will do whatever it is that Kinkos will do -- you can't control that and have pretty much zero ability to have any influence over what they can or will do.
This leaves you 4 options:
Don't worry about it
Worry about it, but do nothing
Develop a strategy that focusses your energy and resources on changes you can affect within your own sphere of influence
Change careers
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Anybody heard about Home Depot doing signs, I know it was brought up a while back and somebody in this post said that they "tried" it. does that mean that they gave up on it already? I hope so, good for us!
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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Please explain... If they can print directly onto all the materials, that could pose a good threat. If they have to apply vinyl that's another thing. As far as customers wanting fast signs, unless the sign is for their ego; striping, house sign, boat sign so on, people want a sign to help them make money. They don't want to wait while some artist gets inspired!
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