posted
Hi all. This month has been so slow its rediculous. I'm thinking about competing with the junkie down the street for change.
I would like to know what you guys were doing for promoting your business. I'm going to do something like Glenn's flier, but was wondering what else has been successful for you folks.
Thanks so much!
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2287 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Some 'Heads will post here that you need a positive attitude to help build a positive outlook....that things will be better.....that doing awesome signwork will turn things around. Well, sometimes, in more and more markets, due to reasons beyond our control.....business sucks! You can work your butt off, lower your prices, send out flyers, and whatever. I'm sure many of you will think it negative of me, especiaslly those doing well in THEIR market. We've slithered into WALLY-WORLD, which has changed everything. All you can do is offer your best work, your best service, your best prices. I don't have an answer that will lead to a guarantee of improved business. I wish I did. Sometimes it's a temporary thing you just have to ride out! Good luck! Hey Cheryl, am I right, or what!?
[ June 25, 2002, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
Amen Bob, I've been trying to coin a good term for the B.S. way the consumer is now and you did it "It's A Wally World After All". Everybody treats every business as if it was a Wal-Mart. You know it's funny, When I was a teenager, the first Wal-Mart that opened near us was a like a seconds store. My family and most everybody I knew wouln't even shop in there cause it was junk but look at 'em now. Back then K-mart, TG & Y, & Roses were where to go. All gone but one and it ain't kicken' to much.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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Don't let a slow spell get you down. Since you're not overly busy you should have some time to take a drive around and look at the sign situation in your area. I've heard of a few people analyzing the signs in their area, and then promoting strongly to those in need of some good signage. I'm sure you'll see plenty of faded, cracked, messed up signs from the past, and I'm sure that is one of the largest "out of sight, out of mind" problems that business owners overlook. Also, maybe it's time to look at the sign on your storefront. I would bet that freshening it up a bit, or giving your store a new look may draw some attention.
Does your vehicle promote your business? If so does it maybe need a little touching up, maybe a new look? Color? Etc..
Glenn has the right idea. Make some well thought out flyers, and market yourself. Don't slash your prices too much, but maybe offer some coupons, or some form of a discount to satisfy the "Wally World" types as well. Mail these to the businesses most in need of sign work, as well as any other business. You never know, the simple projects can prompt people to examine their signs and just may land you a larger project. If you have an Edge printer, then promote the heck out of it. Small stickers for local businesses make money too.
Another idea that may be worth exploring is Radio adds. It may not sound like a gold mine, but for a local market they can work well.
I'm assuming you have the materials and time to spare at the moment, so it shouldn't cost you too much to do a little self promotion.
We donate allot of different things from Rapid Tac, and it all comes out of our pocket, but it works. We like sending out t shirts, and free samples so that people can see for themselves what our products do. Now I'm not saying to give your work away, but maybe donate a few banners to promote some local events in trade for a plug abotu your business?
Do you advertise in the Yellow pages? Do you have a web site? These aren't factors that I believe would break you, but every little bit helps.
The work is out there, you just have to be the first one to catch it is all.
-------------------- Jeff Bailey Rapid Tac Inc. Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 231 | From: Grants Pass, Oregon, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Flyers are a good start. I would mail 20 out each week to different companies that I want as clients. Doing so helps you to pick the kind of clients you want.
Another thing I recommend doing is looking for ways to expand your market base. What products and/or services can you offer that may be a natural tie-in to what you are already doing? It might be screen printing t-shirts or signs. It might be selling advertising specialties like pens, pencils, decals and such.
That's how we handle it. Frankly, there just isn't enough signwork for all of the shops in our town. By being diversified, the effects of economic changes is minimized. For us, it seems like when signs are down, t-shirts and decals are up; and vice-versa.
posted
By the way, don't be afraid to promote yourself. If you don't toot your own horn, neither will anyone else.
If you have a sign pictured in one of the trade magazines, get and extra copy and frame the page to hang on the wall for your customers to see. Things like that go along way to build credibility. And, the more credible you become, the more you can charge as well.
posted
Felix, One of the rules of selling is, your best new client is your old client. Maybe they don't need a new sign, but they know you do good work, and they know someone who could use a sign.
Years ago when things got slow, I would go to the client list and send out handwritten postcards. "Hello Charlie, I see your truck around town but I haven't seen you lately. Please keep me in mind if you have any signwork coming up. Also, if any of your friends needs their truck lettered, please pass my name on to them. Thanks!"
Each note was personal, sold very softly, and asked for a referral. Also, if a client got his name in the paper, he got a card. The return rate was about 10%, that is, every ten cards would bring in one order over the next three months.
Steve Shortreed and I are both fans of Joe Girardi's book "How to sell anything to anybody" It is the bible on how to get your name out in front of the world and keep it there. It's a thirty year old book but I think it is still in print. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
wow, this is the first time i've found Glenn to be wrong...
do not mail out 20 flyers a day.
hand them out personally!
i've done a lot of sales, and read a lot of books on selling, and the FASTEST and LEAST EXPENSIVE way to generate customers is through direct contact. that means you shake hands with them.
when you are face to face with a business owner you get their full attention (if only for 15 seconds). if you mail them something, it may never get their full attention.
when you are there in person you'll hear things like "well, we don't really need any signs right now. ... but do you do banners too?" people think "sign" and they think "4x8 plywood" or "neon" or whatever their own idea about a sign is. they often don't realize that we do "windows, doors, POP, cars, trucks, flags, banners, floors, water towers" and all those other things that are "signs".
when you visit a place, you get a better idea of what they are like, and what they might need. you can tailor your approach to their situation. you can take the 5 seconds of "face time" to say "i do sign repaints" or "you could use a sandwich board out front" or "i see your menu prices have changed". a mailed flyer can''t do that for you. the mailed flyer might sit in a drawer and might bring you business in a few months, but face to face can get you business today.
by all means, print up the flyer, but hand deliver it and get the name of the person you gave it to.
all that said, some months suck. at least you'll be out driving around and giving out flyers instead of stuck in the shop waiting for the phone to ring.
(my own flyer is just a post-card. i got 500 of them for $95. right now i've got more work than i can do, and i'm not even that good at making signs... but i'm great at selling them!)
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Me? Wrong? Never! Well, maybe once in a great while. Hehehehe....
But seriously, I do recommend mailing them (and I didn't say 20 a day - I said 20 per week)
Part of mailing them should include a letter of introduction stating that you will be calling them shortly to possibly make an appointment with them to see what you can do to help them make his job or his business better.
I am not saying that handing them out personally is wrong. Far from it.
Consider this. I'm busy. Some guy walks in and asks to see me. Its some guy who wants to sell me something (i.e. - the hungry signguy). Immediately, a wall goes up. I've been interupted/disturbed from what I was doing. I don't like that.
By sending a flyer coupled with a letter of introduction telling the potential client that I will be calling him in a few days does a few things.....
1) It shows that you are a professional that knows that his time is important, not just to him, but to you as well.
2) It weeds out those who have no interest.
Having done this personally, I can tell you it works. I never got past sending out the 20th flyer because I got too busy with new work.
There is a time to hand stuff out personally. I recommend doing it at business functions such as the once many local Chambers of Commerce have.
Anyhoooo.....thats just my take on it. Its worked for me.
posted
In the past when things got truly desperate and I had to make some money NOW, I loaded my vehicle with a few paints, brushes and ladders and hit the street looking for repaints. "I could referbish that sign right now for $65" (or $200 or whatever was appropriate). "I've got everything I need with me and I can be finished in 2 hours". It was always good for a hundred or two dollars a day, with no overhead except the paint, and the practice had a really uncanny nack for attracting other business owners to approach and ask for a quote.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
i love it....youse guys DONT READ!!!! the post says "IAM BROKE"!!!! apperently you never been there..when you suggest radio adds, mail outs, and other thing that require MONEY!!!! your old customers are you best form of advertizing.....and your best repeat customers and they will tell 10 of thier friends!!!!!! this is where i go when times are tight(i know how broke is). stop in to there place of business.."just say hi," they know who you are and what you do. SOCIALIZATION..is good for you when money is tight....money buys a lot of things....but it cant by friends. and most of the people i do signs for...become sorta freinds. i gar-on -tee that if you get in YOUR truck, go visit some of your customers....you will come home with something to do!!!!!!! so get off your butt....GO VISIT!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Since you are broke zip over to the local Chamber of Commerce and pick up one of their member directories. This has all the folks that are chamber members listed in various categories with contact names, addresses, and phone numbers. The contact name is the part that really helps you out (foot in the door).
Old customers is good, also visiting different networking events. Check your local paper for groups meeting in your area. I'm a member of BNI (Business Network International - www.bni.com) and I get a bunch of referrals from them every month. You can go visit probably for the cost of breakfest or free depending on the chapter.
I've sent out postcards like Glen (20-40/week)and have gotten a bunch of bites. Scooter has the right idea too by visiting the folks face to face.
Keep your chin up! I just went through a slow 1.5 weeks myself and all of a sudden I'm swamped with estimates and cranking out a few banners, some vehicle graphics, and my favorite tow truck operator stopped by to say they purchased an impound lot. Before you know it you'll be swamped too so enjoy your few days of rest. A positive attitude with your customers always helps and shows through.
Good luck
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
posted
Yes Bob you are a funny one! Keep that positive thing going on............ Felix....when things slow down for me I do send out flyers to my customers I haven't heard from in awhile. This always brings in more business, and gets you on your customers minds. Phone calls help too, if not just to say hi. Good luck....I know I have been where you are and it isn't a fun place to be.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I'm with Joe Reese on this one,....Time to go out and find some work don't wait for it to come to you.The term is SNAP! It is the verbal counterpart to the noun snapper.I especially like someone's tag line here about sitting in the middle of the field waiting for the cows to come to the pail,if you want milk, now is the time to go to the cows.Pass out some business cards. Start some wild design on your shop vehicle with the inventory of materials you have on hand to drum up some attention. Chase down refurbs or repaints. DON"T WAIT FOR THE PHONE TO RING,GO OUT AND MAKE IT RING.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I just saw a sign dude repainting the colums that hold up a sign, they were ugly and faded. Now they are an uglier shiny new blue.. But, he did the work for $90 bux .. the owner supplied the paint and the pan and the roller too... took him 3.5 hours.. The business owner is so proud of his fresh new looking sign posts too.. But, the bonus. more shop owners around the first want thier posts painted too. He got a weeks worth of work just by going out looking for it.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5278 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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I went thru a scary spell around Nov/Dec of last year. Lot's of extra outlay financially. My dog was sick, (to the tune of mega bux) and I had other major extra expendatures with the house and business. To make matters worse, cash flow was slow, and work was trickling in. Then there was Christmas ... hahaaa... yup, ... I survived that too! Cut it back quite abit, and had one of the best Christmas' ever.
The short story is this ... money was going out faster than it was coming in, and I found myself in a situation of catch-up!
Yes indeed ... I was getting kinda nervous! Best yet ... it made me angry with myself for getting strapped like that. Being angry and dissappointed with myself has always worked in my favour as a motivator. I'm resistant to letting myself down!
The good news is this. I learned alot, and things did turn around for me.
I devoted my time and energy during the holidays working on my website with Dave, and I redesigned my new biz cards to co-relate with that too. I revamped my workspace and aimed towards organizing and upscaling. While I never actively pursued work at that time, I never stopped seizing the opportunity to talk excitedly about what I am capable of doing with all those whom I was in contact during the course of a day. As usual.
I never stopped believing in my abilities either, and the value they hold. It's easy to let others make you feel like your work holds less value than it does ... unless of course you know otherwise! Let positive inner dialogue drown out the nay-sayers. The encouragement of friends and family are a plus too!
When I first started in business for myself, I remember asking this question of someone who was also self employed. I asked "when does this feeling of insecurity go away? ... this knot in the tummy?" ... better defined as the uncertainty of where the next paycheck will come from. At that time the comfort of working for someone else, and knowing the amount of money I would be taking home each week was still fresh. That person's answer to me was ... " you get used to it". hahahaaa... what volumes that simple response spoke.
And so it is, you do indeed get used to it. Low and behold, things usually seem to work out too ... with the right attitude.
I will say this. Things do turn around. Just don't stop believing otherwise and don't spend too much time worrying, as time spent finding solutions is better invested. Those solutions will be different for everyone. Circumstances will vary. In any event, ... know that your next big order is just around the bend, and point yourself towards that direction.
Getting back to what my last scare had taught me. I learned that what I do and what I offer is viable, and valuable. I turned my own self respect for it up a notch, and found in doing so, others followed suit. I learned to ask for more, with conviction and confidence. I realized just what I needed in order to survive and prosper and in doing so, I now have a better understanding of where my goal posts must lie and I'm determined not to budge from that.
I also continue to hone my skills, and learn new things. Some being new techniques and skills, and others entailed getting more efficient with what I've already been doing. I also work on keeping more focused and manage my time and money better. My next "scary lull" will not be without a significant cushion!
I got real with my circumstances, and took the steps involved in heading towards the results I wanted. I opted to take my slack time to do some self inventory and regroup.
I think you will find that the answer, often times, lies no further than within yourself.
Trust your instincts, and do what it takes. Easier said than done, yes. One more thing, befriend your patience.
"Lifetimes can't be lived out in a day".
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Just a thought, if you have the time, take a few pictures of signs that need replaced. Print it and a re-designed sign on the handout, with a this here art belongs to me" type message on the re-design and mail it to them. Seeing their business sign will usually give them cause to at least look at it.
-------------------- Raymond Quick Ye Thicker Than Thou Sign and Repair Shoppe Olympic College, 1600 Chester Ave Bremerton, WA 98337 rquick@oc.ctc.edu Posts: 50 | From: Bremerton Washington | Registered: Jan 2002
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If ya dont have the money in the first place, you cant run out spending money on flyers or other promotional crap! Unless ya got a nice printer already and can print them yourself instead of having a printing co. do it.
Visit your existing customers! Just go out and shoot the breeze! Bring biz cards with you. Somewhere along the line, someone's gonna say "Ya know what? I'm glad you stopped by cause I need some banners (or decals, or new logo design, etc etc.).. bam, you got work to do.
It works.. just being out there gets you into the public eye. Your existing customers will need something, and new customers will see your vehicle out on a business call and will either stop for a minute or give you a call.
If nothing else, stop at a car dealership. The salesmen have nothing else to do all day and they just might need some signage for an upcoming sale, or even some dress-up graphics for their cars.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
A guy can in to town last summer for a funeral but since he was here he decided to go from business to business asking who would like thier windows washed. Well he came in on Friday and left Sunday $800.00 richer. Now I think you could do this and then sell window lettering for those nice clean windows and you could be way richer. P.S. He only charged $20.00 per business for the windows.
Now I know this was a lot of work but like I said if you are broke washing windows and getting out in front of people to sell too might be just what you need.
I hope this idea works for you just remember keep a positive attitude be friendly and if someone says NO thanks! do not take it personaly maybe next time they will say yes.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Steve, that's a good point - We never think about doing manual labor, especially outside the sign biz, but window washing strikes me as a clever way to get not only a quick buck, but a chance to pitch some lettering to go on those nice clean bad boys. A bucket, a rag, a squeege and a smile, and a sign kit in the back seat.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Ahhhh window washing, before I got into sign painting that used to be my hustle. Plus a janitor/house cleaning. but to make a long story short it is a good way to make some money with a low overhead. I would put an ad in the local newspaper and target a certain area (hit the where the rich live) at the time I would do a 3 bedroom 2 baths house for $35 bucks (back in the late 70's) and could do it in less than an hour, but even before I put an ad in the paper. I would go business to business asking to wash their windows. Funny thing was not long ago I was painting a sign in my ladder truck and saw these guys washing windows at a store front across from me, so when I finished I walked over there kicked up a conversation about how it looks like a certain trick to wash windows (which it is, all in the wrist) Well this guy goes on how difficult it is and it takes practice, and it's not as easy as it looks. Which is true like any trade. But It's been over 20 years or so since I've washed windows. Soooo...I just had to ask, man I sure would like to see if I can do that, he hands me his squeege and says sure "go ahead and try it" I wet the window, slid that baby horizonally to the right, came down without lifting off the window twisted to the left, came back down again and slid again, twisted to the right same thing. came to the bottom and finished at the corner. With his ****ed off look, he says "you've washed windows before huh?" I smiled and said "yeah, but it's been years, thanks for the opportunity to see if I could still do it." He yeah you still can!
Oh forgot to give you an answer what to do. Like I said in another post you have to get out and communicate you have to hustle! Repaints would be my first option. If things are that bad, you might have to get some kind, any kind of a job until you get back on your feet.
[ June 26, 2002, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: FranCisco Vargas ]
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Well the worst thing you can do is drop your prices to get the work...usually. I just had a slow time myself and here's what I did: I found a street corner in my town where there was long term road construction going on for months. It was killing business on all four corners. So I went around with a cheap xeroxed copy flyer offering to do window splashes for anyone on the corner for half price through the duration of the construction. I got a lot of work and made a lot of friends who really appreciated my generousity in their time of hardship ( I saw no need to mention that I was desperate for work at the time). I even did some work for a restaurant that we eat at all the time so I took payment in trade. It was kinda funny to be completely broke and still be able to eat out at a nice place every night for a few weeks. So a temporary price reduction might be just the thing if you can find a justification for it. 4th of July is coming up( do they celebrate that in Costa Rica?) one could offer to do patriotic themes at a discount or something like that.
posted
Hey Felix....no one seems to catch the fact that you live in "Luquillo, Puerto Rico" Now if memory serves me...it is real tuff place to get any kind of gig going. We don't have any idea what the economy is doing there, so it is hard to figure out just what you should do. If the problem is your business practice, then the ideas presented here will help...if not...then I would suggest looking to relocate to a better economic climate. ....just my thoughts. Good luck, amigo
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1002 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
If your gonna clean windows and then sell some vinyl to put on em.
Well, don't clean em with window cleaner, just clean em all with Rapid Tac and then if you sell a window sign, it won't be contaminated (and besides, R.T. cleans sooo good in the first place) its the only thing I'll clean windows, counters, car interior and glass, stereo, computer moniter,t.v., etc. !!
Well ,I guess I'm spoiled !
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Actually, the fact that Felix lives in P.R. didn't get past me. That is the reason why I strongly recommend looking to expand the customer base by offering more services.
And, expanding the market base does not have to cost anything. Felix already had access to the net. I'd contact Stouse and a few other ASI members and order their catalogs.
The key in Felix's situation for a successful future is going to be diversification.
For right now, he may need to take on an odd job or two. Back in 1980, when another recession hit, we were painting houses to fill in for the lack of sign work.
Don't let it get you down, Felix. Its gonna take lots of hard work, but you can do it. You can succeed.
posted
Thanks guys. You guys really make sense. Jackson, yes. Seems like when something happens in the States we feel the aftershocks a few months later. Back in Sept I couldnt have complained, but since January its been going down & down. About diversification, I try to do as much as I can. I always hand out Stouse Catalogs & a Gemini catalog here & there. I offer biz cards & have a little billboard in a restaurant & it absolutely helps. I dunno, I guess (hope) its like someone said "a spell". Thanks! Have a good one!
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2287 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Married and with three children, I started a sign shop in a small town 32 years ago. In a small town you could not generate enough business at sign painting to make a decent living...especially when there were other sign painters competing for what little business that was available. Thus, it was quickly realized that I would have to work more then one job to make enough money to support my family.
I got a job as a fireman and painted signs on the side. Money was always tight but we made it. Not only was I able to enjoy my sign painting but I found a new love also and a mission in life. I rose to the rank of captain and retired with a decent retirement plan. For the 31 years I worked "my other job" I dreamed of retiring and opening a sign shop. As vinyl machines came into the picture I started dreaming of retireing and opening a vinyl sign shop. Now, I know I will never be as expert and professional as other sign painters and artists are that could concentrate solely on their arts over the years, but I can still have the satisfaction of participating in this wonderful trade with enough skill to make and sell signwork even though it isn't the best. And you know what, with a pension I don't have to worry about slack times. Im even getting into printing. Always learning. The adrenalin still flows when I think of the vinyl business. I will be buy a machine soon. Very possibley two (one being a printer/cutter). My dreams will come true it would appear. God is good. And you know what? Sometimes things don't work the way we would want them to, but they always do work out if we do what we have to do.
posted
Felix, sweetheart- I agree with whoever said to slap some new (in-stock) vinyl on your vehicle, something wild & noticeable. Do they have 4th of July parades/celebrations down there? If so, drive the newly-jazzed-up sign vehicle in it, grab some cheap candy to throw to the ankle-biters & pass out your business cards. Hey, and you're cute enough to be a Chippendales dancer on the side! Love- JILL ps- Chin Up! This too shall pass!
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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