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How to well and quickly apply cast vinyl (Scotchcal) on a vehicle when the temperaure is above 30°C/86°F?
-------------------- Desire Rusovsky SDG Signs rue du Lac 24 1342 Le Pont Switzerland desire@sdgsigns.com http://www.sdgsigns.com Posts: 218 | From: Le Pont / Switzerland | Registered: Mar 2002
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Desire..At those temperatures I try to do everything indoors or in the shade. If it has to be done outside and in direct sunlight I use a LOT of application fluid. I don't know what is available to you in Europe but many of we North Americans use Rapid Tac.
I also use the "hinge" method of application for virtually EVERY application. It allows you to position the graphics perfectly before you remove the backing paper.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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I know about the benefits of Rapid Tac...but I keep hearing about the Rob Ivers videos....I might have to check that out...everyone seems to rave about his dry install techniques and it sounds like it's well worth the $$$.
The great thing about dry installs is that it's on like iron from the start....but I still like wet installs when dealing with layers because wet allows you to see what you're doing better. You know, the wet app tape gets kind of transparent so you can register things better. I've used alignment shapes too...but they always seem to get weeded away or are in the wrong place to make it easy.
Usually, on a layered project, I'll put the base vinyl shape down dry, and then the subsequent layers wet.
Does Rob show you how to do layers dry? That would be very interesting.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Yes. He demonstrates the hinge method and a few others. What interest me the most was how to apply vinyl around those compound curves. I do wish he had spent more time on that.
One particular problem I have is wrapping a 5"+ stripe around from the side of a van to the back without it turning downward or tunneling. Someone told me that I needed to "digitize" a matching curve and actually cut the stripe that way. But, it seems like more work than it should be.
I just don't do enough applications anymore to get really good at it like Rob.
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Getting back to the 'hot' install question, I don't recommend it at all. I let my customers know that shade is required at the very least. If I have to apply it in the sun, I warn against it and offer no guarantee on the outcome. It's their call.
I've never had to redo a firetruck install using wet app when done indoors. When outdoors in the hot sun, I can almost always guarantee some bubbles somewhere. And I'm not one to be ok with that. It must be perfect.
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Donna's post reminds me of what happened a couple weeks ago to Dana, my assistant.
She had a pair of pickup doors to letter. It was pushing 96f and not a cloud in the sky. We had accidentally let the customer leave without giving us a key to the truck.
Anyhow, she cut the vinyl from a roll of 3M-7725 (it has that plastic liner). She masked it all up and used so blue masking tape to hold the vinyl down in position on the truck for alignment. I was busy with a customer on the phone, so she waited until I finished before she had me to check over what she had done.
About 15 minutes later, I stepped outside, did a quick once-over, and gave her the OK. A few minutes later, I could hear a stream of profanity going on outside. I went out to see what the problem was.
It turns out that the vinyl had literally bonded itself to the liner and the liner was stuck to the truck door.
I thought I was going to bust a gut.
[ June 23, 2002, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
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We have one of those portable tents we use for the dragster. Best 100.00 we ever spent. just pop it open and go to work. I found at least if you have shade the vinyl wont give you as many problems and I'm not in such a hurry to get out of the hot sun. Nuthing like trying to overlay vinyl with sweat running into your eyes..
-------------------- Robert Davis Sticky Sam's Signs (828)488-1715 stickysam@dnet.net The Great Smoky Mountains Bryson City, N.C. Posts: 133 | From: Bryson City, N.C. US | Registered: Jul 2000
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The main thing that I learned from Robs Videos that has helped me is the way he removes his liner and sgueegees the vinyl. It contradicts everything I learned out of books, but works way better. Since I started squeegeeing the way he does, I get done way faster and with no bubbles (most of the time, but that is what a bubble popper is for ain't it!) I still do a lot of stuff wet but the squeegee technique is where it is. As far as application in the heat, I actually had one the other day where the application fluid was turing itno steam 'cause it was so hot!
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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Thank you for your answer. The vehicle was not directly in the sun but under a metal roof. My wif got the same problem than your employee, the vinyl sticked to the liner and was distording when released from the liner. About the Rob's videos: I'm not sure I can't use them since we have a different video format in Europe (PAl instead of NTSC). What means the "Hinge" method?
-------------------- Desire Rusovsky SDG Signs rue du Lac 24 1342 Le Pont Switzerland desire@sdgsigns.com http://www.sdgsigns.com Posts: 218 | From: Le Pont / Switzerland | Registered: Mar 2002
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Just a comment Glenn..and not meaning any disrespect. I happen to use the middle hinge occasionally, when necessary. But for virtually 90% of my apps I use a bottom hinge. Can you think of a reason why top hinge would be preferable to bottom hinge?
I know it sounds like it is a silly, picky question but I am curious about who uses which method.
I know that the video guy advocates top hinge and sideways squeggie strokes but I just happen to like the bottom hinge and the same sideways strokes.
I know it ain't as interesting a topic as what brush to use fer a certain pinstripe or letterstyle but it is to me!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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I prefer the top hinge over the botom especially on vertical surfaces because i can remove all the transfer tape at once & hold the job loosely away from vehicle (or whatever) but still see what I'm doing, & without describing the physics of it , I just think gravity is slightly in my favor also. If I can nest 2 lines of copy upside-down to each other & only result in a straight "hingeable" cut on the bottom of the copy, then I do the bottom hinge. In this case I might install in 2 or more pieces what I otherwise would have installed in one due to myself having less experience with the bottom hinge.
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I do most of my stuff wet. It jsut makes it easier. however, Dave, when I do a hinge I also prefer the top. I think my reason though is,(and I hope I can explain this.) the "roll" of backing paper that results as I remove it, is suported by all four fingers on my left hand as I squegee with my right. On bottom hinge (if i'm doing it right) the only thing suporting the "roll" is my thumb. this can result in the "roll" doubling in the middle with the effects of gravity. Not that it is a big problem, but then things just start to "not go right" but its all personal preference. buy the way, I got my color palettes to stay in corel. thanks for the help.
-------------------- Dave Utter D-utterguy on chat Sign Designs Beardstown, Il. signdesigns@casscomm.com Posts: 777 | From: beardstown, illinois, usa | Registered: Mar 1999
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I have been doing dry application for years, even with layers. I use the middle hinge method mostly, but also the top. My trick for layering uses no registration cuts or anything. It's simple and fast.
Trim with scissors real close around the second layer at the top corner and the bottom corner opposite each other so you can see the outline. Once you visually get it registered, Tape it in place and apply.
Once I have every layer trimmed and ready to go, I can do a multicolor job in just a few minutes.
I use Conform tape cause it's the best. Doesn't curl as bad and lays flat. I use RapidTac, too; especially in hot conditions and with larger graphics.
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Everybody who does vinyl needs Robs videos. Roger needs to brew up some Rapid Tac Videos now then we will all be able to master both ways. It is the way Rob does the liner that amazes me and I ain't tellin how 'cause I had to pay $99 so can everybody else. And that goes for Hinge techniques also. Sorta like fonts and clip-art, if I got 'em free, I would let somebody have 'em free. I paid $99 so if you want to learn hinges and Dry techniques like Robs, buy the videos. Good lord $99 is cheap for the stuff you will learn. Plus Rob spent a lot of time making those videos and it isn't fair to him to let the secrets out on a board.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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but its all personal preference. buy the way, I got my color palettes to stay in corel. thanks for the help.
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