posted
I reciently had another sign painter do a job for me that was out of my area....
We made contact by phone and he did a great job.
In looking back,I made a few mistakes....
First, we should have had a clear understanding of what we expected from each other....
Second, I should have clarified that he should only deal with me for price negotiating with the client...
Third, I should have taken into account the fact that I wouldn't get paid for at least a month from the time of compleation (I don't have much on hand all the time)
I was thrilled with the job, no complaints whatsoever.....
But..
He asked the store manager how many windows he should do...instead of calling me ...
He signed his own biz name and number to teh job......
OK, OK, your gonna tell me I shoulda, coulda, whoulda...but we all learn from our mistakes, so......
Is it customary to pay immediately or only after a paper invoice has been recieved, is an email sufficient or within a certain time frame....or is that all up to whatever is aggreed apon at the time of first contact......
Also, seeing as he was doing this client (mine for over ten years) for my company, shouldn't he sign it 'such and such' for Splash Signs and my ph# instead of his biz name and ph#?..that's what I do if hired to do a job for someone else.
Keep in mind, I'm not unhappy with his work, and I will pay him, I just think I should have handled it differently.
I am interested to hear how you handle these situations.......
posted
EVERYTHING is put down in writing and signed of by both the client and the jobber. This goes for how and when the jobber gets paid, who is permitted to contact whom, and so on. Any changes to be made must be approved in writing ("change of order" form).
If your jobber quoted you a price, hold him to it. You should not be the one to pay for his error when he figured up a quote for you.
[ June 15, 2002, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Adrienne, when you work with vendors who are always subs, they usually have a clear understanding that you are the customer, and are good about not getting in the middle.
In this case the fellow was another retailer, and he probably didn't even think about the consequences of what he was doing.
In new relationships there is no substitute for a good written document that includes work to be performed, price, site contact, and name of person who can authorize changes or additions.
The authorized person is very important because there is frequently someone on site who thinks they are the decision maker. When that person comes out and tries to take over, the situation is easier to handle with a document in hand.
Sorry this job turned out to be a problem for you. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
When I work for someone else and I am asked about pricing I always tell them to contact my employer since this was your contract he should of known better to negoitiate for you. He should sign the splash any way you ask since he in fact is your employee and YOU own his work. The client will complain about all problems with you and you are ultimatetly responsible for him.
If the client is happy with the completed work then you should pay as soon as you can but why is he now asking for double the quote did you build paying him double into your quote?
He was way out of line wheeling and dealing with your client you have grounds to fire him if he was realy out of line.
I do think you should pay as promptly as possible with in reason like three working days I would think. So perhaps you should work on saving some money for a rainy day as they say.
And like everyone else said next time have all the requirements of the job in writing so he knows what his responsiblities are. It is only good business now what is stopping him from aggressively going after your client for next years contract?
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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[ July 03, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Ron Helliar ]
-------------------- Ron Helliar Marysville Sign 11807 51st Ave. NE Marysville, WA 98271 (360) 659-4856 Posts: 263 | From: Marysville, WA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I do a lot of subcontract work for others (mostly construction and/or painters).
I do not negotiate anything on the job! Any changes are reffered to the original contractor! The only exception was one time that I was told that the owner had designed it himself and that it was going to look like crap; and that I was free to see if I could improve on it, without hurting any feelings.
On construction work, you can ask for a "draw" for materials and equipment, and final payment is in 30 or 60 days. (I get paid when they get their payment)
Chalk this one up to a lesson learned!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I now find out that not only did he negotiate with the store manager...he also contacted directly, the head office and told them he would be available for any more work they would have for him in the future!.
Am I to understand that they signed their name to your design ... and then proceeded to take your customer's future business from you? Sounds like they did so quite deliberately also. Contacted management!?!
There is very little that gets me ruffled ... but this does.
Adrienne, I do hope you stand up to them on this one, and let them know the wrong in their actions.
I'm in your court on this one girl. You may have been lax in "contractualizing" your agreement with them. But, if I'm understanding this situation correctly ... it seems their actions are highly inappropriate here.
Nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Nettie, I gave him free rein as to the layout and design, only giving him the copy.
He proceeded to negotiate the amount with the manager rather than calling me, then....according to the store manager...he asks her for the home office's contact info (after asking about how many stores, where, etc)
Then called the person who hires me and offers to do future business with them!!!!
posted
Adrienne, now that it is established that he is a scoundrel, it might get a little tricky.
If you pay him less than he wants, he can call your client and complain about you. He can also embarrass both of you by going out and removing part of his work. You can head that off to some degree by telling your client that he did more work than you contracted him for, and does she want to pay for the extra work or stick to the original agreement. Then if she says original price, and you pay him the original price, he looks like the jerk if he goes back and complains.
If you decide to give him less than the contracted amount, what you might do is go down and remove all his work, redo the proper number of windows yourself, and then give him half, like a deposit for cancelled work. Your argument is that he did not do the work per spec and you had to do it over. If you decide to go this way, be sure your client is on your side before doing this. If he goes out and messes with your work, then the business can call the police and have him arrested for vandalism. I'm not a lawyer so this is not good legal advice.
The jerk might also be reading this post. JERK! JERK! JERK! How's that? Adrienne, keep your decision private until you're done, in case the jerk is reading this post. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I think this is the kind of guy that needs to be on a email watch list. Sign me up.
-------------------- Ron Helliar Marysville Sign 11807 51st Ave. NE Marysville, WA 98271 (360) 659-4856 Posts: 263 | From: Marysville, WA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Adrienne, What I dont unerstand is why you just did not do this job yourself....in the past you have allways been hot to do a job any place in the USA. If it was a job that you just did not want to do then this guy did you a big favor by doing it for you and prob. felt that you did not care about the account. If you want to be in total control over what happends on the job then you got to! got to! got to! spell it out from the start and stay in touch till the job is done. I feel that making a sub wait over 30 days to get paid is not fair if that was not spelled out from the start, he should get paid in a timely manner (he worked hard and did do the job in a timely manner for you) and you can get your cut from the job later when the main office pays. I know that you are a real stickler when it comes to signing names and phone numbers.......sure it was a customer that you have had for 10 years but he did do the work on that one job.....I care more about getting paid on a job well done than the recontion on who did it esp. if its a job thats out of town and I dont want or plan on doing more travling to that neck of the woods. what is important here also if you want to keep your 10 year customer then you need to provide better "CUSTOMER SERVICE" I know if i were the customer i would want to know that when i pick up the phone that the job gets done on time, done well and at a good price with no hassels. some one can allways come weather you know them or not and pick up the customer by offering better service,designs and prices....thats just business.10 years or not if you dont have a signed contract to do all of there work then you dont really own them and that makes them fair game to allmost anyone.
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Aaron, I wasn't able to do it myself as I was in texas at the time and I couldn't drive there or fly there anyway (not easy to get there from here.
Re read the first post carefully, I think you misunderstood the point.
posted
When I was an apprentice I was taught to represent the company that was employing me whil on their jobs. If someone asked me if I do work on my own when I'm in the supermarket, of course I do. He shouldn't have signed his name on it if it was being billed through you! Had he put your name though, you might be responsible for getting a business license in that town.
I usually agree with subs that they get paid when I get paid.This is agreed upon prior to the work starting.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
i did reread your post and I also read your post from june 5th about this job
posted June 05, 2002 03:25 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Awww, c'mon!!! I don't want to drive 5 hours to do this simple, easy as pie splash job.......
C'mon, SOMEBODY must be in the area that will do it? please???? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In your post here from june 15th you never said anything about "not" being able to do the job because you were kicking it in texas you did talk about how misshandled the job was and about signing work and paying the sub and keeping your longtime customers....so no I dont feel i missed the point of the post nor is it a slam...just my honest feed back about sub-contracting and keeping a customer happy........this is what the bull board about is it not? posting questions and getting feedback.
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
gee telling me "end of story" sounds like alot like....."shut up"????? just trying to help out like you asked for in your post.
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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