posted
Summa has a new thermal printer cutter, the DC3, coming out in July... SummaDirect This should make things really interesting for us who have been waiting for the right print/cut machine. Check out SummaDirect for details. Their web site says under $30,000, but the ad in Digital Graphics says $24,995. Hmmm...sounds like theere is finally a good competitor for the Edge?...with built in cutter and 36" wide printing...
Think Gerber has anything new coming out soon?
-------------------- Alan Dearborn Dearborn Graphics Hampton, NH USA Posts: 271 | From: NH USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
Yep; the cat's out a bit early. I guess the folks at National Business Media were anxious to get the July DG out early.
No sweat; I guess it's now public at "Under $30,000" is $24,995 US. Also, we have some new improvements in strip printing with our OptiTrac™ and DotZero™ technologies. Best of all of course is the integrated cutting.
Thank you for your interest. I'll post complete specs, material cost, etc., at the end of this month ... in the Suppliers' Soapbox of course.
Best Regards, Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you're truly interested in a BIG thermal transfer setup, you could probably pick up a GERBER MAXX for practically nothing. The warehouse is loaded with these unsaleable "anchors"!.....right, GLENN?
posted
Glenn, When a $8000 PC60 thermal transfer printer that prints 22" AND cuts too, works as perfectly as mine does, why spend 30 big ones on a machine that can't do those things? Aren't you glad you asked?
posted
I don't understand why more companies don't make more 24" & 48" printer/cutters. Those 2 sizes are what I would use most and I would assume many sign makers use just because they are easy standard sizes of materials. Bueller? Educate me Bueller?
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
How's about 36 inch ... right smack dab in the middle?
Regards,
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
It's to small for 48" (a 4'x 8' sheet would have either a 1'x 4' strip of waste or a 2'x8' strip) and to large for 24" sign would have a 1' strip unless the sign was 6'long .
Will you sell material in narrower widths like 24" that will work on the new machine? I've read that a while ago you used to sell a 24" printer (before I got into business) and for a one person shop, 24" is probably about all I feel I could handle without getting help for installation. I'm probably in the minority but it's a thought.
I can't wait to zip down to your office and check out the new machines. When will they be on display?
-------------------- Brian Diver PDQ Signs Everett, Wa
The only reason to upgrade from your Roland is if your volume surpasses its print efficiency. If most of what comes out of your Roland is around $8 a square foot, and you can produce for $2 a square foot using an alternate technology, your aggregate production cost may be higher than Glenn's, even factoring in the equipment.
On a 36 month lease, $1 in monthly payment gets you about $33 in equipment. If each sqare foot you print costs you $6 more than it would on an EDGE, DC3, or whatever, that's $198 worth of equipment - every time you print a square foot. So at around 40 sqaure feet per month, you're doubling the cost of your equipment.
I'd encourage everyone here to look at their aggregate cost of production, especially on the color printing side. A hotdog vendor needs to buy sausages and buns for about what his/her competitor does ... paying more or less for the grill is a minor cost consideration. Our industry is not too different ... albeit hotdogs taste better than vinyl
My $.02,
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
You could see one now. We have a couple of preproduction units in Seattle, which are frequently updated to the latest firmware / controllers / whatever.
Also, in the US there are a bunch of 24 and 48 inch cutters, which drives media widths (finished). Web widths are 48 and 60 inches, for the most part. So efficient sizes are 12, 15, 20, 24, 30, 40, 48 and 60, because there's no offcut.
The DC3 takes 40-inch material and prints 36.2 inches wide. 40-inch material is the only size it handles. We looked at variable width. But we made major gains in output quality and efficiency by maintaining a static width ... at least it doesn't have to be punched
Regards,
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Jim, I'm a little one-man shop, so VOLUME isn't where it's at with me, so the PC60's initial cost and subsequent output does well with me. Glenn, I don't crank out the volume you do, but the PC60 makes me plenty o' bux for my little dinky business. There are lots of small shops out there in the same boat. The PC 60/600 gets you in the ballgame a lot sooner, cause if it sits for a coupla days, you're not scrambling to make ends meet. My FREE time is a whole lot more important than PRODUCTION time. LOW OVERHEAD is where it's at for ME, and MANY, MANY others out there!
[ June 18, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
As far as paying an EDGE payment, I think that is why the cost of print and cut is driven down in my area. Get this $2 bucks for a 3 color spot 10" wide color flag. Is that right for an Edge print retail on HP vinyl? Howsa about $7 for a 10" oval decal with 4 colors spot on HP vinyl. Is that about right, I think that is way low isn't it? I see edge work in my area on stuff it shouldn't be on and for some way, lowball price and I think it is all to pay the payment. I really like keeping my low overhead too (I don't have any) but I will have to figure out a P/C solution soon.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bob, Trust me. Where the Edge is concerned, I am in no way scrambling to make ends meet. Quite the opposite in fact. Like I always say, it doesn't matter what the equipment cost, its how much you make with it.
Jim, Your "aggregate costs" comment is dead on. And personally, I prefer BallPark franks with mustard and chili.
I'd have to refer you to our Neil, as he manages dealer sales in Canada. He'll know which of his dealers are handling DC3. Neil's e-mail address is neil@summadirect.com.
Hi Glenn:
Mustard and chili?! Dang it; just when we were starting to see eye to eye Next time you're in Seattle, we'll have to head over to Digity Dog ... they have a dozen or so varieties of sausage and every imaginable topping. Lunch is on me.
Best Regards,
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
Now let's see.....a guy with a small one-man shop decides to jump into digital. (let's round out the numbers) Colorcamm....$9000 Edge (and all the stuff you have to get to make it work).....$30,000 That's over $20,000 difference. So, the little shop owner, while paying off $30,000 , has to make a profit of at least $20,000 to break even! That's a lot of money for a little one-man business to have to deal with right up front! OK, eventually you start making money you can keep, if you don't get burried in the process. Unfortunately, lots of little shops have gone into this business on a wing and a prayer....some of them very talented with lots of hope and maybe a family to feed. That $20,000 can keep him from going belly up while he's trying to make a go of it. Granted....many will fail anyway, but why put the guy in cement shoes(for you Joisey guys) when he doesn't need to go that route! What it comes down to....if you can afford it, and you want the Gerber system.....BUY THE DAMN THING!!!
[ June 19, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
Bob you sound like my dad. a car salesman was trying to sell him a new car and he told him his old car would do the same thing the new car would do. get him where he wanted to go & back.
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
As long as bOB :)is getting to where he wants to go (& back) I'm happy if he's happy.
But for those who havn't jumped of the cliff into digital print/cut technology I will attest to my one-man shop experience.
I put 10k down for a $24,000 Edge/Envision/Omega package I also got a 5K loan to remodel my office. My Edge payment is about $330, (I paid the 5K construction loan off after 18 mos.) & yesterday (being a typical day), I made $160 profit out of the $200 price of some re-order decals. It took me about half an hour to find the file, print & cut, weed & tape. The rest of the day was spent prepping MDO, cutting regular vinyl letters & doing a van install. Also collected half down of $800 sign job I sold, & $200 is for design work to create graphics that could only be produced digitally. My Edge samples really helped me get that job.
Anyway, based on yesterday I can make my edge payment in about 1 hour a month.
[ June 19, 2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
I'm excited about the new machine from Summa, Still a little big for my needs but at least they are closing in on a smaller format market. I would love a 24" or 30" machine but any bigger than that is too big for one man to handle material wise.
As for the Edge, My edge pays for itself, and makes me a nice profit. If more guys could get past the " what is it gonna cost " versus " how much can it make me" the price would'nt even be an issue. There isn't too many Jobs that the Edge doesn't help me to be more profitable on.
You can say what you want about Gerber, but if it wasn't for them, we'd all be pushing brushes still.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bob- I'm a small "one-man" shop. I have an EDGE 2 and Envision 375 (and a 30" Ioline). I put $1000 down and have a 4 yr lease to own program. 18 more months and its mine! Its under $600 a month. If you can't profit $600 a month with Edge prints you're doing something wrong. I just printed and cut 8' of calendared vinyl with one spot color an hour ago and profited $100. Took 10 minutes. In the 30 months I've had the system I'd have to estimate I've put a hundred 50 yard rolls of vinyl through it (15,000 feet). Thats an average of 25' per day. I don't think thats an unrealistic amount for a small one-man shop.
Like Glenn says, "it doesn't matter what the equipment cost, its how much you make with it."
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd like to see anybody make money with an EDGE in a market of 34,000 people, and 27 sign shops. I'm the only one with digital in the whole county, a $600 a month nut on one piece of equipment would give me pause! This is a small town with LOTS of competition....cut-throat pricing,etc. I price rather high, and do custom jobs and I don't want to work too hard. Having "payments" cramps my style! And since I'm doing all the digital I want,I'm having a nice day! I've been at this since you had to mix powder in white paint to get color and it's been a nice, fun, profitable journey without the encumbrance of "overhead". So if I'm doing something wrong, pleasetell me!
[ June 19, 2002, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
I just sub it out! I make money, the other guy makes money, the customer pays the money...EVERYONE is happy!!
What could be simpler?????
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I'm with Bob, even if I wish he'd spent money on our stuff
You gotta scale your capabilities to your market. Not the other way around. Folks will tell ya that "Field of Dreams" marketing works ... especially equipment sellers. But machines don't drive customers to your door. Good marketing does; and the best marketing comes from knowing the market.
Until enough clients are buying color from Bob to drive his material cost over the cost of more effecient equipment (by a goodly margin, consistently, since the equipment purchase isn't backward scalable the way materials are), Bob's doing EXACTLY what he should.
IMHO,
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bob, if there's 27 sign shops and you're the only one in the county doing digital.....common sense tells me your not making the most of a good opportunity.
Sounds like the perfect place for an Edge.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 910 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
this post reminds me a bit of the last wrestling show I saw ( I don't watch it- I was flipping).
A whole bunch of guys all sitting there LOOKING, from outside the ring, like they are beating the tar out of each other but in the end, it's all in good fun!! Everyone walks away. AND you don't have to wear Speedos to do this!!
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bruce, Give some thought to this: 1. Read my previous post again. 2. Is it possible the other 26 shops don't have an EDGE because there's either no market, or they're all dumber than I am. 3. I'm in a market full of retired people, cowboys, and trailer parks. Hell, they barely accept VINYL.....never mind digital! 4. The ONLY reason I have any digital at all, is because I'm a little nuts and "somebody" had to do it, and I get ALL of what little there is of the digital in my area. Sure, I could "beat the bushes" a bit more, but I'm as busy as I wanna be, I have 4 computers; a PC60; a PC12; an old Roland 1100 plotter; and a 42" HiFi Jet PRO. I've got 80,000 fonts; a bazillion pieces of clipart; most of the sign programs plus Corel, Photoshop & more. I've got 8 different Photoshop plugins, too. There ain't much I can't do with all this stuff I have, but there's a whole lot I won't do! I also have NO OVERHEAD, and NO PAYMENTS, I don't install or deliver, and I don't paint! and I work a 4-day week! I'm 62, and tired and cranky . It's time to smell a rose or two. And I'm tellin' you and all the other GERBER-philes...I DON'T NEED NO EDGE! I got all the edge I need!
[ June 20, 2002, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
posted
Im with you bob...tell them the way it is!! if thats what works for you in your market and your making the payments doing good looking work and making a good living thats all that counts! to me i dont care what brand name it has on it as long as its doing the job and making $$$$$ and your happy
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
Why did you get the PC 12?, when you already had the PC 60
Hard to find any info on the PC12 Please give us a review of it & if you like it
Do you find the slow cutting speed is a problem? How does the output compare? Do you use non roland cartridges in it? or the PC 60 Do you do any wax fabric transfers? All info would be appreciated
Thanks a lot Neil
-------------------- Neil Senior NA North Hollywood CA,91606 Posts: 5 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
The PC12 is great in a pinch, especially if you're out on a job with a laptop. It's slow, but who cares? I aint goin nowhere! It doesn't take the place of a PC 60/600! The 12 is merely a low priced entry machine to get you into digital. If you have little or no budget, and you can't stand NOT being into digital, the PC12 will do nicely. Or get the EDGE!! hahaha I just to little stuff on the 12 when I HAVE to...the PC60's the workhorse! I do graphics, lettering, stickers, hats & shirts!
posted
I love it, this is a classic Ford vs. Chevy debate ain't it yall. The Mustang is always faster that the Camaro ain't it?
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
.
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic