posted
Rick Sacks brought this up in the "Add some shape!" thread so I thought I'd make it a new thread.
Do you turn down work from customers who might be involved in practices that conflict with your beliefs? ie: pornography, religion, racism, foul language, etc. etc.
I don't. These things just don't seem important enough to make a stink about 'em, probably because I just don't care either way nor do I hold any strong beliefs about anything at all. I'd be more apt to turn down the job if the customer is being just plain difficult or if they simply rubbed me the wrong way.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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It would depend. Racism I would definately turn down. One time a customer wanted a naked lady painted on his sign. I only did it because it was done in a classy way.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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I'd have to say both yes and no to this one. It depends on how strongly I feel on the subject, I guess we've seen how that goes , right mike For the most part I have always painted just about anything the customer wanted. I've done work for topless joints, although I never frequent them, lettered profanity when I felt the general public wasn't going to be exposed to it.
I did turn down work from the KKK, however.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I turn down work all the time, its hard enough being me, but sometimes listening to others and what they believe in does a number on my head. For instance, I don't do motorcycle work any longer as it isn't worth the hassles and takes up too much of my time, plus I don't like black T-shirts. Being here in Gods country, I now understand why it took so long for me to get going. Some couldn't take my accent as well as my language, but now have straightened that out by dealing with persons with money and education.
I personally don't give a rats a-s what anyone is into themselves as long as it does not interfere with me or my work. Those who are proven racists, rapists and all around a-sholes, I care less who does their work as long as I don't.
I cannot put up with militants, survivalists, cop suckers or politicians. Seeing someone who abuses, whether a child, a pet or another person in public cannot stop me from being the upstanding person I am and will insert myself into what is none of my business. I no longer allow persons to view my work when I am doing it as their conversations may directly interfere with the outcome.
I am a peace loving person who gets crazy seven minutes into the day, after some idiot driving a vehicle with a whole lot of bass makes a turn without directional signals in front of my house as I pull out of my driveway.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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I had a request to make a watermellon to put on this phone co. guys truck by a person who thought it would be funny. I asked him why a watermellon and he said because the phone co. was bought by a bunch of "slang" (black folks) and I flat said no. He's never talked to me since and that's fine with me. I'm not into racism.
-------------------- Chuck Gallagher Pro Graphics Signs by Design Cabool, MO 417.962.3291 "I grew up in Letterville" Posts: 776 | From: Cabool, Mo. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yup. I don't accept government work above the level of my local municipality. Aside from most of the people I would have to deal with being boils on the collective ass of humanity, it's against my moral code to accept stolen property.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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This is something I have to be careful about. I have a strange sense of humor, but at the same time I don't wish to insult others. I've done some things for bachelor parties and such for family and friends that I don't think I would do for customers.
I don't think I could do anything of a satanic nature, or sacreligious, or anything that would exploit anyone. And George, amen on the KKK. Told a guy one time (not sign related) that I have no regard for someone who would burn a flag and burning the cross is far below that. Ya just can't trust a man who does his gutless deeds in the dark with a hood on his head!
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Interesting thread! Although I am a pretty hardcore Athiest, (and conservative!- go figure..) I would have no problem whatsoever doing work for a church, temple or mosque, and I often admire religious sign work. I don't do inflammatory religious stuff that mixes theology with politics, education or society contrary to my positions (the choice issue, evolution, gay/women's rights, etc.) I can usually turn that stuff down in a diplomatic manner by saying "I not really the right person for that type of work". If I do take the job, I feel I owe the customer a good job. Certainly would not do stuff for the KKK or Nazis or PETA. There is one painter in my town that has a huge laundry list of subjects he won't touch, with quotes from scripture by every item. This is on his flyer he hands out to the public. You know pretty fast where he stands! I think this is an easier call for a business owner than for an employee. Should a dedicated Pro-Lifer employee be ordered by the boss to make or install signs for the local "unplanned parenthood" clinic? I had a co-worker a while back (very politely) refuse to work on a christmas-themed project becase he was a Jehovah's Witness. It was no big deal, and he worked on something else.
When work was slow for me last fall, I did send out window splash flyers to every adult "novelty" and video store in my area figuring they might be having a hard time finding a painter who was willing to park the shop truck in front of the local porn palace. Now that I am busier, they are not on my "A" list of desireable clients. I do hear they pay well.
posted
Interesting post.... a subject that's had me thinking lately. Ethics are important... but to be real we must be consistent in all areas of our life... not one person on Sunday morning and at home and a different one the rest of the week.
I think whatever holds in my personal life should carry over into my business career. But it's a call we each have to make and not transfer our values as judgements on anyone else.
There are quite a few jobs I have and would continue to turn down because of what I personally believe.
At the risk of getting flamed... the list goes something like this...casinos, drinking establishments, profanity, poor taste (my definition) and signs of a lesser quality or lower price than my current standard. In short, I'm real particular about the type of work I choose to do. Quality is just as important as content to me.
I try not to come across as judgemental but just politely decline the work I don't want. If a reason is requested by the client I will reply honestly and simply. No big deal.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Over the years I have been very fortunate not to have many of these kinds of decisions...there are sometheings I just will not do but I feel they are my own buisness as far as what they are.
On one occassion however I flat refused to do a sign I thought was totally out of line and sick.
Shortly after the bombing of the Murrah building (in OKC ) I got an order for a sign for "McVey and Murrah Attorneys at Law"...I thought it was a joke and told the lady calling and I quote.."If this is someones sick sense of humor it's not appreciated by me, go find someone else to do your work.
Well I got a call back from her boss and he asked what the problem was and explained it was in fact legit...man I was embarrassed.
If you noticed the Mc Vey was spelled differently ...but the Murrah was infact a relative of the man the building was named after.
The really strange part... was the attorneys never even noticed the strangeness of their name til I balked. Go figure!
[ June 09, 2002, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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What I said was "There have been several times that people from that type of business ( tarrot readers ) have requested me to make a sign for them and I won't. I take the time to explain my beliefs and they usually walk away respecting me, but I do not want to use my talents to further their occult practices.
Are there types of businesses that you will not promote? Do you ever refuse anybody on a principle type situation rather than money or personality conflict?
I don't do signs in drinking establishments or places where poeple smoke either, not because of any moral reasons, but because those are uncomfortable places for me.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6717 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Nope..Never have. Turned down lots because I didn't think I could do em. Turned down lots because I thought I wouldn't get paid. But never on personal belief basis.
Beliefs are beliefs..Work is work...
I appreciate the strong beliefs that many folks have. Shirl and I are recovering smokers and have been smoke free for almost 4 months and we still have ashtrays in our house for friends who smoke. We don't care.
If Rothmans or Marlboro asked me to do some signs for them..Would I do them?? Damn right I would!!!!!!! (not gonna happen because I am not a large corporation making HUGE amounts of money) There is nothing wrong with making signs and making money, by the way!
Sorry to mention the smoking thing..it is, at this point in our lives, something we wish to continue doing (not smoking) and like to inject it into conversations, cyber or otherwise, just to continue to convince ourselves that it was a wise thing to do. So far it is working.
Have a wonderful, work intensive, profitable week folks!!!
Oh, by the way, NOPE never have turned down a job that I knew how to do! (Opps repeating myself!)
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
wont do signs for any republican candidates, KKK, cock fighting or dog fighting.....or anyone who wants OLD ENGLISH ALL CAPS!!!!!! and would do signs for PETA, GREENPEACE, SAVE THE OWLS, SAVE THE WHALES,PRO CHOICE...and any anti meat, smoking, drinking,FOR FREE!!!!!!
[ June 10, 2002, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Good Question... I do work for all types from churches, police and town offices to Hells Angels and less Lawful types. I was working one time at the clubhouse of the local 81, these guys are a mean bunch and yes believe it or not do partisipate in some illegal activity. So I am painting a large mural on the outside garage door, and another contractor starts talking to me, "hey thats awesome, can you letter my truck?" I say Sure, he says I want big white letters on the back that say "white power" he proceeds to tell me all about his dislike for folks of darker skin color, and how he wants them to read it after he runs them down! Yikes! I thought the HA's were tough, I said yeah I can do that, laughed and went back to work, I snuck out before he could grab me again. I would not want to do that job. no thanks.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Same as Glenn...and also would refuse to do PETA, or any anti-hunting/anti-gun group, and well...honestly...pretty much the reverse of Old Paint's post. How's that for diversity?!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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The White Power and KKK guys always amaze me with their comments and requests. One asked me if I had all the different versions of the Confederate flag and starts to explain about how the battle flag is the only one ever displayed. Now I don't exactly resemble the "pan blanco" look that they like to see everyone have, so why are they telling me their speil.
posted
Rule # 1 - never leave any money on the table. If someone will pay your price (set it accordingly if you feel the need to add a 'flake' charge), then by god do the work and TAKE the money.
Rule # 2 - The KKK has just as much right to a sign as the NAACP, and if they chose to, they can sue you the same. Discrimination goes both ways - and thanks to the 1st ammendment, you are free to hate, love, scream or whisper about anything you choose - be it a dislike for a certain breed or love of a certain car make.
I dont like rap music, but let MC Crapper or LL Kool Aid show up at my shop with a wad of dead presidents and a tourbus in need of a stripe and watch the vinyl fly.....
posted
IN 48 YEARS OF DOING THIS STUFF, I WAS NEVER EVER PUT IN A POSITION TO DO ANY WORK THAT WAS SO AGAINST ANYTHING I BELIEVED IN! ANYHOW...I BELIEVE WORK IS WORK, AND IS SEPARATE FROM MY OWN PERSONAL BELIEFS. BUT, I COULD NEVER DO A KKK SIGN IF I WAS APPROACHED TO DO ONE, AND LIKE THAT. WHEN I'M LOADED WITH GOOD WORK, I TEND TO TURN DOWN ALMOST ANYTHING FOR ALMOST ANY REASON!
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moneys money however. I won't sub out this one metal guy because, I've only talked to him once before but, now he thinks he knows me well enough to use the f word as every other word. Now, I use the f word frequently however NOT talking amongst other trades or while working in public. Just amongst my peers oh yeh, and my children.ha ha
Yes, there are jobs we turn down. Certain materials do not hold up outdoors and we refuse to use them. If a customer insists on using them, we would rather pass on the job. Also, we do not do work that would violate our conscience. We will not do jobs for tobacco companies, of a military nature or of what we feel to be of an immoral type. We do many signs of a charitable genre for the various Kingdom Halls and do not have the time or resources to do other charity type signs. We do not, except for the Kingdom Hall signs, do signs of a religious character or signs denoting Holiday celebrations. We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to decline any requested sign order.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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There was a guy in the class at LATT that said he would refuse to do any signs that advertised meat. He got a job working for a MEAT MARKET!
And one time at Lenny's a guy came in from a strip club who wanted a banner advertising Candy Samples, who was about 60 years old at the time. One of the guys went so far over the edge about "CHILD PORNOGRAPHY" the guy left. Talk about your "People Unclear on the Concept"! I would have loved to do a banner for Candy!
I, too, am some sort of an atheist, but for some reason the very devil himself brings all the religious work to me - and I do it. It's only money.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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For the right price,while killing ground hogs with my free hand, I would paint a nude portrait of Old Paint in a compromising postion with a dolphin while he referee's a cock fight in PETA meeting,wears a george w mask and eats a filet while singing gangster rap and wearing I LUV THE GOP HAVE A CIGARETTE in black/red shadowed old english on an arc across him.....all with the further goal of being able to digitize the image and have him pee on a calvin. Why? b/c the sign biz is a customer service one,and a happy customer tells 5 people who then want to deal with you...an unhappy customer leaves and tells 50 people what a pompous judgemental sob you are,and whether people know the full story or not thats the only thing they're gonna remember about you....not how good your work was,but that xxxx said you were hard to deal with.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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i wont work for car yards, and real estate agents why? because my experiance has shown that a lot of folk in these industries dont seem to want to pay a/ the right money b/ on time, or anywhere near it c/ are difficult customers to be around
i do not like to generalise but have found that the times when i have gone against my own 'unwriten rule' i have kicked myself for doing it
cheers gail
-------------------- Gail & Dave Hervey Bay Qld Australia
gail@roadwarriorproducts.com.au
sumtimes ya just gota! Posts: 794 | From: 552 O'Regans Creek Rd Toogoom Qld 4655 Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Man, sure is alot of different people on here, don't you think. I won't do "anything" for money. I turn down jobs that require me to letter profanity. I don't do stickers anymore, so that more or less got rid of that anyway. I wont do signs that are sacreligious, due to respect for those people like me that beleive in god. I wouldnt do one for a religous person against agnostics either. Wouldn't do anything racially degrading, white, black, or any color. I have a conscience, and some ethics I believe, and try and be a professional in my work. I aint knocking none of you for your beliefs in your business. It takes alot of people to make up this world. IF we were all the same, it'd be weird. I make enough money in what I do to be able to do this luckily, but probably, even if I didn't, I'd still turn em down.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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INEVER do a job where the color"mauve" is required. I also turn down, on a pretty regular basis,Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists,and MOST OF ALL,Beauty Shops.(....Right,Cheryl?)
posted
I just recently did a very nice sign for the “MASONS”…………Who here would have turned that job down?
The only people I might not consider doing a sign for would be self-righteous, narrow minded, religious fanatics who think that any other view point on “GOD” is wrong.
If the KKK approached me………….I’d just make them 2 K’s…………then I’d tell em …..” hey man, it’s all the K’s I had”
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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hahahahahaha gavin.....only problem i see here... YOU CANT DRAW!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH hope the comedy gig works out.....heheheheheh
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Don't need to draw for this one Joe...4 people already sent me the clip art..
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Gavin that was great. Except you forgot one important aspect about OP. Tai-Chi
If someone does have the cohones to draw or paint this one up I would love to see it. I am sure it would be a HOOT.
Joe we love ya!!
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Until now I refused twice. First time, for the window of the strip club I lived nearby and suffered from the noise and problems linked to prostitution and the second time for a charme (sex)video club. As believer, I sometimes did some work for people practicing things I believe not harmless (alternatives medicines, ...). I think something it's more important to preserve or to develop relationships with theese people than to turn them down.
-------------------- Desire Rusovsky SDG Signs rue du Lac 24 1342 Le Pont Switzerland desire@sdgsigns.com http://www.sdgsigns.com Posts: 218 | From: Le Pont / Switzerland | Registered: Mar 2002
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I did a window splash for a porn shop. A buddy of mine (also a window splasher) said he could never do that. Then we started talking about pricing on another job and he told me I should bid at double what I thought the job was worth just to see if I could get it. Wow! so universal biological impulses are a perversion, but price gouging is perfectly moral? Interesting. I have recently decided to take a stand against doing cigarette stores. I 've done them in the past and it bothered me a lot. The only other one I've refused are those shops that sell bowlderized versions of popular films. As an artist censorship makes me break out in a rash. I don't try to explain my convictions, I just pretend to be too busy or something.
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For the most part I have always painted just about anything the customer wanted. I've done work for topless joints, although I never frequent them, lettered profanity when I felt the general public wasn't going to be exposed to it.
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