posted
I was looking through the latest issue of Signcraft the one with Fence It on the cover and I started reading Dan's article on digital printing along with the Fence-It design on the cover he had 3 or 4 more great looking designs. by reading it I wasnt sure what plotter he used to print all this stuff though. He mentions in the article he was impressed with the Roland PC-600 does that means thats what he owns? by looking at the close ups of his work I would have guessed an Edge possibly. Because I own a Pc-600 and have not been able to solve the banding problem scince we bought it a year ago. his work does not have any banding that i can see.
I know he's a member here at letterville so I hope he see's this
If not does anybody have any tips to stop the banding? like are some types of vinyl better than others? are certain programs better than others? I use corel draw 10 right now. Are there any settings In the colorchoice rip that can help? any solutions would be apprieciated!
[ June 06, 2002, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Richard Doyle ]
posted
Back in the July/August issue of SignCraft, I had an article which included several photos of digital work that we had done, some Edge, some ColorCamm. Photos printed in a magazine tend to make things appear better than they really are. The photos of the jobs that I had done with a ColorCamm didn't show any banding either. But, in real life, the banding was obvious.
I am not saying that there was banding in Dan's work. I would have no way of knowing if it did or didn't. Dan is a terrific guy and would not put out any slouch work, no way, no how.
My suggestion to anyone looking to buy a thermal printer - ColorCamm, Edge, or Durachrome - is to get a sample of the real thing and compare. Take time to sit down and crunch the numbers and make an informed decision.
[ June 06, 2002, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Glen, so if you was to go out and buy a large format printer, say to do signs for outdoor or some interior type signs, You wouldn't buy the ones you mention? Which type of printer would you like to buy if you had...say $10K to spend but also include a good rip software within that budget?
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Frankly, I don't know what I'd buy. It would depend on several factors.....
Speed Dependability Support Print quality Costs of consumables Ease of use Market demand/needs
All of these things need to be taken into consideration and investigated before any decision is made.
What would I buy if I only had $10k to spend? I can't answer that question because I don't look at it that way. It has always been my contention that it doesn't matter what the equipment costs, but rather how much I make with it. So, to be consistant, the $10,000 would be irrelevent.
Below is a post I wrote in another discussion on another sign related BB a few weeks ago. It is an updated version of my Edge vs. ColorCamm post that I wrote a few years ago.
**************
May 26, 2002
I'm late, I'm late. My appologies. I spent Friday and Saturday working on networking our shop computers and I screwed something up.
Anyhooo.....Here are the revised numbers. I had hoped to include Summa's new DC3, but some prices have not been released yet. The following numbers are based on the US dollar and the imperial measuring system (metric still gives me a headache )
ColorCamm Pro PC-600 - Retail price: $8995.00us - Max printing speed: 6 minutes per sq.ft per color (9.8 linear inches per second) - Cutting speed: 8" per second. - Ribbon/Cartridge price: Spot Color - $20.00us; Process Color - $15.75us - Ribbon coverage: 8 sq.ft. - Ribbon cost per sq.ft.: Spot Color - $2.50us; Process Color - $1.97us
Edge PCS system (Edge-1, Omega software, GS-15 plotter). - Retail price: $16,000 - Max printing speed: 43 seconds per sq.ft. per color - Cutting speed: 4" per second. - Ribbon/Cartridge price: Spot Color - $98.00us; Process Color - $108.00us - Ribbon coverage: 165sq.ft. - Ribbon cost per sq.ft.: Spot Color - 60cents/us; Process Color - 66cents/us.
Edge-2 premium system (Edge-2, Omega software, enVision 375) - Retail price: $35,000 - Max printing speed: 14 seconds per sq.ft. per color - Cutting speed: 33" per second. - Ribbon/Cartridge price: Spot Color - $98.00us; Process Color - $108.00us - Ribbon coverage: 165sq.ft. - Ribbon cost per sq.ft.: Spot Color - 60cents/us; Process Color - 66cents/us.
As a general rule of thumb, there are 240 business days in a year. Most equipment is depreciated over a 3 year period.
Daily cost (numbers do not cover finance or tax fees)...... - ColorCamm Pro PC600: $12.49us per day (note: this assumes owner already has software such as Corel Draw or SignMate). - Edge PCS system: $22.23us per day - Edge-2 premium system: $48.62us per day
Cost to print one 50 yard roll of vinyl one spot color (price does not include cost of vinyl)..... - ColorCamm Pro PC600: $2.50 x 150ft. = $375.00us - Edge PCS system: $90.00us - Edge-2 premium system: $90.00us
Time to print on 50 yard roll of vinyl one color...... - ColorCamm Pro PC600: 15 hours 0 minutes (does not include the time necessary to change the 19 ribbons). - Edge PCS system: 1 hour 54 minutes - Edge-2 premium system: 38 minutes
Profitability..... - Lets assume that you have an order for a pair of 12"x24" magnetics to be done in full color. How profitable would it be using either machine for the time used assuming the project sold for $200.00us and your hourly shop rate is $60 per hour? These numbers do not cover the costs of magetic material or the time spent cutting it to shape.
* Edge-2 premium system: - Print Time: 3 minutes (additional time added to manually change cartridges) = $3.00us - Ribbon costs: $6.88us - Total costs: $9.88 - Profit: $190.12
Now comes the argument that the ColorCamm cost less on a daily basis in case you don't have much business. Lets take a look at that using the same scenario. Lets assume you only do one of these jobs or something similar per day.
* ColorCamm Pro PC-600: - Print Time: 1 hour 36 minutes = $96.00 - Ribbon costs: $43.00us - Total costs: $139.00 - Profit: $61.00 - Daily Cost of Equipment: $12.49 - Total Profit: $48.51
* Edge PCS system: - Print Time: 12 minutes 30 seconds (additional time added to manually change cartridges) = $12.50us - Ribbon costs: $6.88us - Total costs: $19.38 - Profit: $180.62 - Daily Cost of Equipment: $22.23 - Total Profit: $158.39
* Edge-2 premium system: - Print Time: 3 minutes (additional time added to manually change cartridges) = $3.00us - Ribbon costs: $6.88us - Total costs: $9.88 - Profit: $190.12 - Daily Cost of Equipment: $48.62 - Total Profit: $141.50
Please note that none of these numbers include the time it would take to cut and apply the vinyl graphics to the substrate.
Now, some may want to argue that they only do one of these types of jobs per week. OK....
* ColorCamm Pro PC-600: - Print Time: 1 hour 36 minutes = $96.00 - Ribbon costs: $43.00us - Total costs: $139.00 - Profit: $61.00 - Weekly Cost of Equipment: $62.45 - Total Profit: -$1.45
* Edge PCS system: - Print Time: 12 minutes 30 seconds (additional time added to manually change cartridges) = $12.50us - Ribbon costs: $6.88us - Total costs: $19.38 - Profit: $180.62 - Weekly Cost of Equipment: $111.15 - Total Profit: $47.24
* Edge-2 premium system: - Print Time: 3 minutes (additional time added to manually change cartridges) = $3.00us - Ribbon costs: $6.88us - Total costs: $9.88 - Profit: $190.12 - Weekly Cost of Equipment: $243.10 - Total Profit: -$52.98
So, what do I conclude from this? If a shop still doesn't have much work to do, the Gerber PCS system is still cheaper and more profitable to own than the ColorCamm. When there is any sort of volume involved on a regular basis, the Edge-2 system would be the better way to go in spite of the higher daily costs.
posted
The printer used for all the photos in the article and cover was the PC 600. I can assure you that the final job looks as good as it appears in the magazine, with no banding. I couldnt sell the stuff if it banded.
The manner in which I design things, and the convenience of the print and cut made me opt for the 600 instead of other options.
The machine has functioned perfect for me, and has been a great tool, like any piece of equipment.
We've all done the Edge vs Camm posts to death here, so I don't want to rehash everything. But the Postscript rip, and drag n' drop feature of it allow me to work in my favorite design program - Freehand. I don't use any sign programs for layout, so I thought software that allowed me to design as I always did would obviously benefit me.
I know people have had good experiences, and bad with all sorts of various machines. Theres certainly advantages and disadvantages on both - but for price, convenience, print size and software issues, my choice was the 600. Also, the resolution seemed so much better than the resolution on an Edge, and I worried if my clients would accept it, seing as how I was selling it as a substitute for painted effects.
Glenn swears by his Edge, as do others. Some people really like the 600, some don't. All I know is, spending 45 bucks to print 2 decals for two doors and selling it $450 is making money. And I couldnt sell the job with a seam, as most truck doors logos are taller than 12". So with my basic critieria being that I needed it mainly for truck doors and vans, a big factor was the printing width.
Glenn's suggestion is right on the money - get samples and campare.
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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I think it depends on the brand that you use. Back when I had my ColorCamm, the Roland ribbons were made by Fuji. I had to replace several jobs after only 8 months. Whether that has changed since then, I don't know. Also, Iimak (DuraCoat) and ZeroNine are now making ribbons for the ColorCamm. Its the same material that they use for their Edge foils.
So then the question is "what is the warranty?" Well, ZeroNine and Duracoat offer the same "written" warranty as Roland -- "Up To" 3 years. Based on my own personal experience, both ZeroNine and Iimak do a better job of "doing the right thing" than Roland when a problem occurs. To date, Gerber is the only one that offers a written "minimum" durability warranty. In other words, Tomato Red is warranted for a minimum of 4 years, while Brick Red is warranted for a minimum of 3 years. Also, if you laminate the prints with Gerber's UVGuard, they warrant it for a minimum of 5 years on both vertical and horizontal exposure.
(Now if I can just find a way to inject myself with some of Dan's talent, I'd be a wealthy man)
posted
We don't have either yet but we have gotten samples of both and the Roland looks awesome, almost like a real pix out of a photo printer. With the Edge prints you could really see the dots. Is this the norm? If so, it seems to me that the roland is using more ribbon because it is laying down more. That is sort of like comparing a 600dpi inkjet pix to a 1200 dpi injet pix, one used more ink but it looked a lot better. I really dislike the Edges width issue also, I wish the Summa Dura-Chrome more in my league but....I know that we will most likely be looking into getting a printing system within a year but it really is a quandry. Who knows what I'll end up with may even go used.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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About the dots, the Roland ColorCamm PC-600 can print up to 1200 dpi. The Edge can print up to 600 dpi.
Currently, the the PC-600 has a built-in Postscript - something the Edge ought to have, but doesn't. However, there are some available options. Its my understanding that a Postscript Level 3 is available through SignLab's e6. This will provide the PL3 for the Edge (again, something Gerber seriously needs to do as well).
As to the "dots", much of that has to do with the operator as it does with the equipment. The higher the DPI of the printhead, the higher the LPI can be produced without a visible "stair-step" effect. But, there is a catch. The higher the DPI you use with either machine, the slower they will print. The slower the machine prints, the more it cost you in production time. It is up to you, the operator, to decide what is appropriate for each job as they come along. Sad to say, many Edge owners don't use their Edge to it's full potential. Most use Gerber's Gerbertone dithering pattern on everything. Many don't realize just how good a print the Edge can do when they combine the proper LPI with the proper DPI for their particular project.
posted
I'm all out of breath, Glenn! I think I'll buy an EDGE just so I can say I'm on YOUR side .
I totally agree with Dan. My old PC60 printing out of INSPIRE does PHOTO QUALITY output with ABSOLUTELY NO BANDING. The results I get are better than any EDGE 1 print I've seen yet. For this and all the other obvious comparisons that have been done to death here, I'll take the ColorCAMM....but what the hell would I know! absolutely no banding
But seriously, you mean to tell me that if you print a 6" square with a spot color such as Blue that there are no visible stitch lines (better known as "banding"). I saw the PC-600 at the ISA show and it was full of stitch lines when they printed a solid spot color fill.
That to me is the test. Full color images (CMYK) do a good job of hiding them. But, printing a solid spot color will make them stand out like a sore thumb.
And as to the information that I've posted, if I'm wrong, show me where. The last thing I want to do is put out inaccurate information.
[ June 06, 2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
granted, we have a pc60 and an edge2....and from things i've read, the pc600 seems to have similar problems that the pc60 did.
To put it simply, our PC60 has been sitting idle for nearly two years now. Why haven't we sold it? I'd honestly feel guilty selling it to someone who has the expectations for the machine that we did.
There's nothing worse than having to hold your breath while the damn thing prints, and pray that it doesn't do something catastrophic half way through.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 912 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Like I said....absolutely NO BANDING! (NOTHING LIKE A COLD BREWSKY WHEN THE SUN GOES DOWN!) As far as accurate information you give, I'm sure your right on, on the cost factor comparison. But for little shops in various markets, there are other factors, and INITIAL cost is probably the main one, assuming that the actual output of product is equal to the task at hand. In MY case, it is. In yours, it is NOT. APPLES and ORANGES. Another example....my ROLAND PNC1100 has been my only plotter for 10 years now! Didn't cost much and it's never skipped a beat. It's not very fast, but it cuts vinyl as good as any other plotter,and it was paid for in 1993! Plotters made these days are considerably faster and I'm sure, better in many respects. But I was able to afford it "going in" which enabled me to be in the vinyl cutting business without breaking my back! If that plotter had cost $15,000 back then, it may have taken years before I could cut vinyl, putting me well behind the curve for a number of years....LOSING MONEY! Success and profit comes from many directions!
posted
Glenn, banding with the colorcamms is an operator issue, as the printing pitch is easily adjusted with a simple turn of a screw on the printhead.
I have a PNC 5000 which I now only use for cutting vinyl because the printhead on this old machine took a dump and it costs more to repair than I even paid for the machine in the first place! Plus I didnt have enough printwork to make it worth fixing.. Anyway, when it did print, I had it adjusted perfectly and it never banded, full color or spot colors no matter.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I at least know now that the machine is capable of quality prints and that im just doing something wrong. I will try ajusting the screw on the print head any other suggestions would be welcomed
p.s. sorry didnt mean to start up the colorcamm vs edge debate again I know its been done to death.
posted
Alright Glen and the rest of you fellows thanks for the info. Although I heard and I'm not sure which Edge uses a cartridge or ribbon that costs more like $80. One thing though I think I will wait a bit till the next Sign Show comes around this part of the state. I think there is one in August in Long Beach. From there I think most of the plotter and printer people will be there in full force, then I can see what all this banding or spots, different dpi's, outdoor longevity, etc. Good post though for someone looking for a digital printer.
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Concerning the pricing of the Fence-It. We sold them 2 trucks at 450 a piece plus the logo for another 400. Then another 2500 for their web site (www.fence-it.biz). Then business cards, stationery and postcards.
They're getting swamped with calls from just their truck lettering. Then people hit the site and they are SOLD!
That's the value of vehivle advertising, and while these folks initially thought the price was high, they now can't thank me enough.
My new mantra to clients is this:
I don't cost you money, I MAKE YOU MONEY.
PS Glenn - Thanks for the kind words on NorthCoast's web site -
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Hi Glenn, Bob, and everyone else that is a regular post on this comparison issue. I've had my PC-600 for a year now and while the first few months were full of hassels and a great deal of broken ribbons and wasted vinyl...It now producesses what I want it to thanks to folks like Bob, that post solutions on Rolands BB, the Tech folks at Roland who have always had a solution when I called with a problem...and other folks like Ron Percell that have given help when I called. For the most part the only mechanical problem I've had was on initial receipt, were a tension gear had to be adjusted to move the material through the machine, the rest of the problems...banding, broken ribbons, etc...were all corrected with adjustments within the software I was using as well as Rolands own drivers. I reciently had a conflict between SignLabs Postscript Rip and a Rip used for turning out screen printing positives on an inkjet printer, which forced me to us Rolands color choice Rip that is supplied with the PC-600, this gave me the 600 x 1200 dpi that this machine is capable of. Wow, what a print with absolutely no banding. However, after I printed a few more, I started breaking ribbons...come to find out it was overheating the head and actualy melting the ribbon. Another call to tech support, and another adjustment that I was not aware of and off we went. The Roland Rip actually produces a better print than SignLab Photoscript so that is what I use now to RIP'N CUT. I've also notice that I can produce a very high quality print from Adobe Photoshop. On the side of Glenn's very eye opening post which is very appreaciated, I still beleive that I made the correct choice for my situation. The deciding factor for me was the ability to make a $250.00 payment if in fact I was not able to sell any digital prints in a given month, and was the equipment usefull for any other function. As it turned out there have been a few months like this. I actually had more folks that wanted "PAINT" rather than dots. As a small shop owner it was a little easyer to make that smaller payment. If I'd had a "house payment" of $600-$700 dollars that the EDGE SYTEM commands, that would have been hard to take. I started my shop with a 20" Ioline cutter and it serves me well, but there are times when I need a 24" cutter, not enough to justify buying a new one, so the PC-600 does a good job at serving those needs, plus I can cut right from Corel and Illistrator without a bridge program. So if the head ever does dump on me, I still have a good cutter/plotter. The folks that sold it to me refer other potentual buyers to me and I tell them to go to this BB and read what Glenn, Bob, and others have written and then make their own decisson. I do tell them there are times I wish I had an edge but my PC-600 has been good to me and their are quite a few projects that I would have rejected or farmed out due to the limitations of the Edge. Some folks have had great succes and others have had the "LEMON". I don't think it is fair to compair the PC-600 against the PC-60 because, based on my own research, Roland has corrected some of the Deficiancies found in the PC-60. The tape saving feature is one of those, and I find it works quite well. Broken tape can be repaired. The only flaw that I found in Glenn's assessment is that you can refill your ribbons for almost half the cost of buying a new one...they don't last forever but it does save some money and the kids just love that task. It was great to read Don's article and to see his post in support of the PC-600...but I'm with Glenn on this one "...if I had his talent..."
Robin
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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quote: The only flaw that I found in Glenn's assessment is that you can refill your ribbons for almost half the cost of buying a new one
Actually, that was on purpose. You see, I could have calculated the numbers based on using refill ribbons/foils for both the Edge and the ColorCamm. While a 55yd. Gerber spot color foil "retail" for about $98.00usd, I could buy it for as from a distributor for about $80.00usd. To be even cheaper, I could calculate the price if I had used a ZeroNine or DuraCoat cartridge. I am currently paying $105.00usd for a 100yd Duracoat refill roll (35cents per sq.ft.). But doing so might make things confusing for those who are not as familiar with the discussion.
That said, the point I'm always trying to drive home is to "do your homework before you buy anything." So many people buy on "price" rather than on value (i.e. - bang for the buck). We all gripe and moan about the cheapskate sign customers, but we need to be looking in the mirror when we do.
posted
I really am leaning toward the Roland, as you can get a refurb one for under $8K. I don't really care about the speed of the machine cause I can always be doing something else while it is working. I may even go with a pc12, I really just need something to make small to med size decals. If i really get going good, I would like to get something big like a DuraChrome so I would consider this machine a stepping stone. I can always use it as a second machine if I get a bigger one. I get calls all of the time for small mass quanity decals that I cannot produce now and I would like to sub them out but a competitor of mine has an Edge and he doesn't charge ahything like he should for his prints. I cannot compete subbing them out. Speaking of subbing Edge stuff out, do you do that Glenn, I need to find a reliable, reasonable source for outsourcing Print and Cut stuff for the time being. I am not getting tons of calls for it but just enough to make me mad when I loose one.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I'm sorry Glenn. All I did was compliment your efforts and bring up something that has not been mentioned before. You even provided me with information that helped me produce my first Awning graphics over a year ago. But that said I don't think the mirror comment was called for. EVERYONE, at some point in there life does bargain shopping, I know I do, and if I can pass that on to the customer I will, but I document it on their bill as a promotional discount and let them know that the price may be differrent on future orders. I just past my First year in a store front and all of my repeat customers tell me they are comming back because of my fair prices and my Honesty. They don't seem to be bothered that the price has gone back up or that I might be more expensive then the folks down the street...what they do know is that I pass my Fruigalness on to them when its availible. (I know, my spelling sucks! But while I'm NOT trying to instigate a ****ing contest, I hope you get my point.) Robin
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I'm sorry Robin. You didn't offend me in the least. I wish I were a better writer so I could express my thoughts more clearly.
I don't see your post as any sort of a challenge. You made a very good observation and I thought it would be a good idea to expound on it.
The "mirror" comment wasn't directed at you personally, but to everyone reading this tread. It also wasn't directed at the ColorCamm or Edge. What I was attempting to do was express how I see things. I see so many of us signmakers complaining about the customers out there who shop price when we are really no different. This includes me. Price is what got me to buy my first ColorCamm. Because of my experiences since then,when I buy something, anything, I sit down and do a cost/benefit analysis. As business people, we should all do that whether its buying vinyl, paint, software, or what have you. Its something that took me a long time to learn (and still learning).
Please accept my appologies if I offended you in any way. It was never my intention.
[ June 07, 2002, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
If you send a job to the Roland printer, does it hog enough resources in your computer to make it slow going working on another job at the same time? Do you have a dedicated computer for this machine? I know many with a separate system for their routers.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6731 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks Glenn! Hi Rick, I can't speak for other Roland users but I've not realy tried to do other computer work while doing a Roland print. Most of the prints I produce are under 12" square and I usualy print and cut a sheet of them in a fairly short period of time. There have been a couple of other Jobs that were quite large but I just did other things in the shop while it was printing, you know, those bids that no one appreciates!
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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quote:I get calls all of the time for small mass quanity decals that I cannot produce now and I would like to sub them out but a competitor of mine has an Edge and he doesn't charge ahything like he should for his prints. I cannot compete subbing them out. Speaking of subbing Edge stuff out, do you do that Glenn, I need to find a reliable, reasonable source for outsourcing Print and Cut stuff for the time being. I am not getting tons of calls for it but just enough to make me mad when I loose one.
John, although not "tons" of calls, if your getting them all the time, I would guess that many of them may buy from you without ever knowing what your competitor would have sold them for. I bought edge prints from another local sign shop for 3-4 years before I bought my own edge. I always thought his retail price was a little low, but that made his wholesale price to me even better. I knew his price structure enough to bid all digital requests without bothering him. When I did get the job, I consistently got 75-100% markup for my troubles. I am very confident that on the more challenging set-ups Glenn would have the knowledge to produce a better looking print then myself, & probably better then your local competitor, but on your basic prints I would think a local source who " doesn't charge enough" is a good thing.
posted
The Edgework around our area is AWFUL so I wouldn't ever consider subbing from anybody near me. Most of the stuff I loose is just plain jane stuff and the people have starting using me for all of their work and then they want something like they got from my competition in EDGE in the past and they end up going back for it there because the price I get qouted from the places I currently sub out to are higher than the price they were quoted retail. I know that there is a real market that is untapped in my area as far as print cut stuff goes but we have to get a bigger shop before spending big money on a print cut machine. I have really outgrown my current place and it literally is bursting at the seams with equipment and supplies and most of it is so cramped I can't even use it.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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I'll be glad to help you in any way that I can. I wholesale to several companies. E-mail or call me anytime.
What would help is to have some examples of what your competitor is charging, turn around times, software setup and so on. The idea is set up what you need to know in order to get the best possible price and to avoid any unforseen problems.
posted
Thanks Glenn, I will give you a hollar next week. I know that I really need to get my print cut business going before one of the signshops around me figures out how to make good looking stuff with theirs. I am redoing a sign for a guy in a couple of weeks that has an Edged pix of a real parrot on it and I swear to goodness they used a Gif or low res. ie 72 dpi. Jpeg that they got off of the internet to make it. The contour cutting is WAY OFF also, kinda like a squared off parrot. I'll save it and send you a pix of it.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
John your last post got me thinking where do you get high resolution pictures for printing does anyone know of a sourse. I have plenty of good vector clip art cd's but when it comes to photos all I can do is scan Photos the customer brings in and half the time the image is copyrighted and I can't do it anyway. Where do large format printers get there photos for billboards and such?
[ June 10, 2002, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Richard Doyle ]
posted
There are websites that charge for High Res image downloads (used one before but you got me if I can remeber any details) and also some clip-art sets with high res images. I haven't ever dealt with any digital printing like that but I am sure that is probably where they come from.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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absolutely no banding![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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