-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Don't cut any vinyl! Just kidding, it sounds like you're getting bad blades for the Gerber. I dunno, wierd stuff like that happens, are you buying the same brand of blades or using Gerber and Graphtech blades?
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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Until your used to it, for a while run a test cut on H/P vinyl with (2")letters every morning that includes straight letters with serifs and a round letter ... (example)use the word "TWO"... make sure the blade pressure is set so it... ONLY... cuts deep enough to facilitate good weeding.(As the Blade dulls it will require more pressure).
A new blade in our machine (and I'm sure it varies from machine to machine)is usually set at the 1.5 mark for pressure... when the blade is worn so bad it is ripping the vinyl it is usually running around the 3 to 3.5 range.
I'm sure you have found the intermediate vinyls take more pressure than the H/P (be sure you change back to the lesser pressure when your done with the intermediate (the excess pressure wears them down in a hurry).
Our Equipment (Gerber Gs 15) runs from 3 to 5 hours a day and we replace blades once every month an a half sometimes two months.
Metallic vinyls and scotchlite will kill a blade in a day... so we keep a seperate "old blade " for that and turn the pressure up till it cuts.
"Werks fer me it'll werk fer you"
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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Thanks everyone, I'm spoiled with the Graphtec blade life.
I guess Gerber blade replacement every couple of months is normal. I've been using the real Gerber blades, maybe the tangential action is rough on the tips. Do the Gerber swivel blades last longer?
Talking about material ....I have been cutting a lot of holgraphic material on the Gerber. I've never turned the pressure above 3.5 by that time I'm ordering new blades.
ernie
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1701 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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Ernie and Dianne... It is true that Graphtec blades tend to last longer than many others. A Graphtec blade in a Graphtec plotter usually requires far less cutting force than others regardless of the material cut, so it's reasonable to expect much greater blade life. What model cutter do you have? It may be that you can use the Graphtec Tangential EVOLUTION (how's that, Jim?). If so, you'll be amazed at the results you get even cutting holographic or hi-intensity reflectives. BTW, be prepared to replace your blade holder when you notice trouble cutting small characters. They have a long, but finite life and, sooner or later, the bearings wear out. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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I "think" I cut a lot of reflective. I keep a blade just for cutting the tough stuff. I found in that after cutting vinyl with the glass in it, my cuts on cast got the jaggies! (They require two differant blades anyway, as far as degrees goes).
My current blade has almost 6 months on it (for cast).
WERKZ FOR ME!
-------------------- Mark Neurohr "Ernest" Paintin' Place 141 Sunnyside Road Kittanning, PA 16201
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Has anyone ever cut Avery 1708 Bodyguard.I have several signs to do in this material which makes a good chalkboard surface. It is very heavy thick (200 um) material from which I am pulling out the copy. I have a Graphtec FC2100 plotter. I am using an old blade on the highest pressure with the slowest speed and cutting each job twice but still having a devil of a job removing the copy. Any ideas
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Old Paint....c'mon....I can't buy the "Oracal eats blades theory".
It's a calendared vinyl just like Avery's and everyone elses. Sure they might have minor differences but Oracal, for me cuts and weeds very well....and I haven't seen any difference in blade wear as a result of it.
I can't honestly say that I cut a roll of Oracal and thought, "Man, my blade is really dull after cutting that nasty Oracal."
If I was gonna put the blame on a vinyl product as the culprit for poor blade wear...it would have to go to BannerCal. That crap is the most rigid, stiff, brittle junk out there. They must mix Viagra in with the other ingredients.
Poor blade wear characteristics are more the result of improper blade pressure/depth settings, damaged platten strips, and the like.
As far as the Gerber products go.....my buddy has Gerber plotters and he has only replaced his blade once in a year. His works fine....check your blade pressure/depth settings....you probably have one or both set too "heavy".
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Dave... How old is your 2100? You may or may not be able to use tangential mode (transitional models didn't incorporate that feature), and it may or may not help you in any case. Anyway,the secret is using a sharp blade and, probably, the K-30 variety. Please give me a call and we'll talk about it. Regards, Howard 707 746 7172 or 707 280 6360
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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todd..."bannercal is rigid, stiff & brittle????? and what is oracrap.....bannercal is like most other vinyls....651 ora is like cutting thin plexiglass!!!!!!! it even sounds like "plastic wrap"......when you try to ball it up!!!! wisdom will come ........
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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hehehe....ok, I'll have to take your word for it...Oracal must dull your blades, but I haven't seen an adverse effect on mine.
Let me share my infinite wisdom with ya Old Paint: First you have to coat your vinyl with Wesson cooking oil (think "Hot Oil Wrestling") and then you gotta give your blade a little squirt of W-D40 before cutting. This cuts the friction down to almost nothing.
And if that doesn't work...trade your Roland in for a Summa. I'm just kidding of course
Seriously....I don't seem to experience the problems you and Cheryl are with dull knife blades. I mainly use their white. Does it seem worse with certain colors over others??? I'm assuming carbide tipped blades?
My buddy cuts quite a bit of Oracal with his Gerber plotters and hasn't had a problem with dull blades.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Holographic materials could be part of the problem...unless you cut them in your Graphtec as well.
Holographics contain mylars and/or foils which can be more brittle than regular calendared and cast vinyls. This could be causing more friction than normal....just a thought???
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Re: Howard's "Tangential EVOLUTION." Whatever works for ya HK, but the "missing link" is of course, no tangential cutting head.
Hey Todd! Whataya mean "just kidding"? I think the trade-in idea is a great one .
My $.02 on blade life: Depth is everything. Do a test cuts after switching rolls to make sure you're only scratching the release liner; not cutting into it. Also increasing blade pressure to compensate for blade-wear burns through blades faster than if you correct the offset value, which changes as blades wear down.
Best Regards,
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Here is what I said the last time this came up.
Same here with my Gerber Envision. Haven't changed the blade in 2.5 years. Still cuts like new. My Ioline blades last about a month to six weeks.
Joe P.- I always read about how Oracal "eats" your Roland blades. It wears out my Ioline blades a little quicker than say an Avery A5 or any 2 mil cast vinyl but..........I've cut at least a hundred 50 yd rolls of Oracal 651 with my Gerber Envision and I'm still on the original blade. I believe the problem is not the vinyl so much but rather the blades and blade holders.
[ June 04, 2002, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Howard, We have a 2100 we bought new in '94. Never had a single problem with it. What tangential mode? it's a swivel knife.
The Graphtec has 2 force settings we use one for cast and the other for calendared vinyl. Although I do slow down and fuss with it when cutting magnetic or sandblast material.
We never cut into the liner... well almost never!
I find that setting the pressure on the Gerber HS-15 is always a guessing game. It really seems to want to be adjusted for every vinyl type.
We have never bought carbide blades are they worth the extra cost?
ernie
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1701 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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Ernie , Diane and all... Food for thought...This won't help Ernie and Diane but there is another reason for extended blade life in a 4100-5100 series cutter: Most cutters, when you do a test cut as Jim correctly suggests that you do, set the blade some distance up (the thickness of the liner)from the surface of the cutting strip or platten. You don't really know with certainty how far down to set your blade to achieve the scratch on the liner because you don't know precisly where it is. If the cutting strip is deformed or beat up, or if there is a difference in dimension between the height of the Y rail left to right, you don't get consistant, predictable cutting. Said another way, what you really do is set the blade to the surface of the backing material, thereby scratching it...the assumption being that if there is a scratch on the backing material, you must be just through the vinyl...or whatever. Graphtec doesn't do that. With the 4100-5100 it is essential that the nosepiece of the knife holder actually touch the surface of what's being cut...it then knows precisely where the surface is and you set the depth of blade to the thickness of the material. It doesn't make any difference what's under the bottom surface at all, whether the platten is regular or not, dimensional disparities make little or no difference. When you're cutting multilayer materials, for instance, such as Hi-intensity reflective, you cut the 1st polyester layer, the reflective layer, the adhesive layer, and don't even scratch the saran wrap stuff on the bottom. You can cut stencil board without any backing sheet, and if you like to cut Diamond Grade using two passes (which I prefer) you can do so any number of times and the blade will never cut any deeper than you set no matter what pressure or force you elect to use. Blade life is a non issue with the Graphtec.
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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A post script for Ernie and Diane; It was Jim who made me think of this. There is a feature on most Graphtec's...starting with the model 3100 series, and not all of them, either, that we used to call Tangential "emulation". I'm sorry to say that you MAY not have that feature in your machine, but I can tell you how to find out.
Anyway,Jim caused me to think about this emulation thing and I have concluded that the term Tangential EVOLUTION more correctly describes the spirit and the reality of the tangential concept. To think that you need to have a motor to turn your blade is to think that the concept has been immune to that evolution for more than a decade. Just ain't so. If you're interested in a discussion of how a swivel knife performs in tangential mode, I'd be happy to oblige...but maybe in the soapbox section. Ernie...please give me a call will you, and I'll tell you how to find out if you have Tangential E.... hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
posted
Question is how much do you pay for a blade? The cost of the blades should be minimal as compared to the material that you will be cutting with it. If you buy a roll of vinyl for $250.00 and a blade for $45.00 I know that you can cut the whole roll in 1/2" letters with the same blade. Throw the darn thing out and buy another one.
Or can the Gerber and keep using the Graphtec Your using it 10% of the time then sell it so somebody can use 90% of the time and they can have the headaches with the blades...just a thought
[ June 04, 2002, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: J & N Signs ]
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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todd....i find coating oracal with RAINX or applying a coat of teflon wax prior to cuttin the 651 will help save the blades!!!!!!! of course there not gona tell you this todd..would be like geo bush sayin the reason he choked on his pretzel was....he couldnt find the beer he was drinkin!!!! brian....I believe the problem is not the vinyl so much but rather the blades and blade holders. CRAP....i got 2 rolands...and never have any problems with any other vinyls...the only blade i ever broke..i was cuttin ORA 651!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Old Paint....you aren't one of those people that had trouble with the "butterfly" ballot are you? Hahaha. George didn't choke on his pretzel looking for his beer....he choked on it when he heard they couldn't get out all the "stains' in the Oval Office carpeting!
I'm just teasin'.....you're always fun to exchange good natured barbs with.
I just can't say I've had a problem with Oracal 651.....you sure you just didn't have a bad blade? That seems more likely.
Have a good one OP.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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George didn't choke on his pretzel looking for his beer....he choked on it when he heard they couldn't get out all the "stains' in the Oval Office carpeting! 
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