posted
Last summer I had to coat 3-4x8's. In the middle of july it reaches 97 degrees with 90 percent humidity.
I always use the velvety smooth foam rollers (run 'em over duct tape for lint free paint spreadin') to get good coverage.
I was coating with one shot black straight out of the can. I noticed with each pass a little steam rising up from the heated MDO.
But the heat popped those little bubbles, and it resulted in spray booth quality finish.
Now it's 50 degrees and the paint rolls like molassas in february. I dont do a lot of chemical experimenting, so I found another solution for the paint bubble blues. Instead of decreasing the pressure till all (or Most) of the bubbles are gone, I roll as usual.
Them I light up my small propane torch, and wave it like a majic wand (like a spay-booth motion) never stopping in one place. It pops every bubble and leaves the finish as nice as that hot summer day.
The paint has a small amount of fumes that will "out gas" on the surface while the flame skims the surface, but quickly goes out after the fume is spent.
The results are amazing and I've been doing this since Oct.
Just thought I'd share it.
Mike
------------------ Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Alexandria VA
"Joan of Ark was not Noah's Wife"
Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
REALLY!!!!.....paint is a petroleum base= flamable.....you solder gas tanks also....heheheheh...al you gota do is let the paint tack up...20-30 min..then roll with roller very lightly...it will eliminate the bubbles...alos if you can find NAM-E-LAC PAINT its great for backgroud paint....
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I find that the difference of material,time used to paint,plus time for the background to dry.From that of a sheet of Alumalite,coated out,baked on,never rot,and light weight,ready to use.So small,that it actually pays for itself as my time is MORE valuable than that of coating out backgrounds Just MY slant on it.
------------------ PKing is Pat King of King Sign Design in McCalla,Alabama The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Mike, are you jerking our chains with the talk about a torch over wet paint? Almost sounds like one of those Darwin Awards.
Why are you using the stuff right outa the can without adjusting it for the temperature and humidity and area and speed you wish to cover?
Do you ever use "low temp" reducer? Do you ever add any penetrol? Flow enhancers? I learned that a couple thin coats are far more durable than thick coats, of paint that is.
Mike, learn to mix the paint and use the torch for your plumbing repairs.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
A fan at one end of the object to be painted (turn on after item has been coated) then "dress"the paint with alternating strokes(end to end side to side)you'll get the same result and with a lot less chance of your own bodily harm. Other bonus's...your arm won't get tired from waving the propane bottle and the cost is less.
"Werks fer me,fer the last 25 years"...it'll werk fer you too.
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
posted
Well after dealing with painting lots of MDO in my little carport last winter, and hearing them all blow over in the wind. Then getting up and seeing them all covered with dirt, pine needles and who knows what else, I decided until I get my garage built, I will use sintra and intecel in the winters. Makes for a much less stressful time. BTW, I never have bubble problems when I use those TIZ brand foam rollers. I just get 'dull' looking paint if it isn't warm enough outside.
posted
I've gotta agree with Rick on this one. If you properly mix and adjust your paint consistancy before you put roller to panel, you can get a smooth finish that's almost as good as one that has been sprayed on. There are additives made so that you can make these adjustments for temperature, humidity etc. If you get so that you KNOW the properties of the various thinners & additives available, your work will go that much easier, and also look that much more Professional.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
Some days you get to be the dog....other days, you get to be the fire hydrant.
posted
No, I really have been doing this..Watch too much of the "Junkyard Wars" on cable I guess.
As someone who moved from the printing field running large printing presses with 90% alcohol dampening systems, My smelling scenses are all but gone.
If I could detect those harmful fumes, I probably would NOT do some of the stuff I do. (I need a parakeet in the shop to see if He drops dead from fumes, before I do - HA)
I've just never found any printed material to help formulate chemical mixtures. I always perceive durablilty by not diluting paints. Thus dangerous, But visually stimulating alternatives have been incorportated - FRENCH MDO FLAMBAE'!
I do use pre-painted stuff, when the job calls for it, but I'm a second color multipanel bachground freak. This is how I outmanuver my competition.
I love those darwin awards, but would rather not join their ranks just yet. It is one way to go down in american history though....
So, I'll try to mix hardener/reduced in stead of Propane & nitrous. Maybe thats why I was Laughing so hard when this worked.
Thanks for the tips, keep em coming.
"Taste the meat, and not the heat" - Hank Hill
------------------ Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Alexandria VA
"Joan of Ark was not Noah's Wife"
[This message has been edited by Mikes Mischeif (edited December 17, 2000).]
Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Mike, Don't use hardener! That's for other purposes and late on after you get some feel for stuff more basic. There are a whole array of tricks to work with hardener on large surfaces. Also, you can't put the unused portion back into the can without catalyzing the entire contents. I'm glad to find you capable of laughing at your self, that's a fine quality!
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick Sacks, Please tell me why we shouldn't use hardener for backgrounds. I used hardner on the back side of a sandblasted sign I was refurbishing. I did it for speed of drying so I could flip it over and finish the front. That back side was the smoothest, glossiest background I ever saw. If there is a reason why I shouldn't use it, please let me know.
Footnote: A while back someone posted a website on the dangers of isocyanates. After checking it out I purchased the special filtered mask and nitrile gloves for mixing this stuff. The mask and gloves weren't very expensive and I feel much safer while working with this stuff even though One Shot told me their hardener is one of the more mild formulas as hardeners go. Those isocynates aren't lethal (as far as they know so far) but if you develop a sensitivity to them, which results in a severe asthma reaction, you'll be done working with them forever as any contact at all will trigger the reaction.
------------------ Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 ICQ: 21604027 sherwood@up.net
[This message has been edited by Dave Sherby (edited December 18, 2000).]
Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I can't use foam rollers i don't have the patience for them I just use the shortest nap roller I can get, And I never have a problem but I always thin the paint down a little. Good day.
------------------ Scott Moyer Promised Land Pennsylvania 570-595-0310
Posts: 111 | From: Canadensis PA. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Mike why not just stand the paint can in hot water first as jerry says then roller it from a tray,laying off with a good quality clean 3" brush as you go.
------------------ Goldenmahl Dave Hodge's Traditional Signs. Preston, England. 01772 743352 GOLDENMAHLDAVE@aol.com
Posts: 108 | From: Preston, Lancashire, England | Registered: Mar 2000
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as for dumb stuff.... i lived im maine for 8 yrs and did some auto painting up there....in the winter even....had a electric hot plate, and would put the gallon of paint on it...and get it warm enough not to need any reducers....and talk about glass like finish...hehehehehehhe
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey Mike- I like your name-in fact, I've liked using it so much the last 49 years, that I'm going to use it another 49 years! Damn, two Mike Duncans in the sign trade-are they ready for that? Wonder if there's another Si Allen or Joey Madden or Mark Fair or........
------------------ Mike Duncan 2315 H Street Bellingham, WA 98225 eves 360-738-9846 days 360-224-1102 mikeduncan99@home.com $$ Supporter, 1998-2000
"Good Luck many times comes disguised as hard work."
posted
Mike, You are not alone. I stopped the other day to watch a sign Installation crew install channel letters on a Rite-Aid. I always stop and make contact with new sign companies.
They were from 60 miles away. I passed my business card to the guy who drew up a big smile, Took one of his cards out and whattada-ya-know MIKE DUNCAN!
I also met one at a church function....seems like we're everywhere...... SCAARY isn't it?
------------------ Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Alexandria VA
"Joan of Ark was not Noah's Wife"
Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Dave, Wood expands and contracts enough that using hardener on that surface can cause early breakdown. I agree about the heightened gloss and smootheness. I also know that on most plywood 4x8 signs the added expense of the hardener is not necessary. I use it myself that way on occassion, but not on every blank we prepare.
On the back side of the sandblasted sign, I'm curious to see how it holds up. What is its orientation to the sun? Sprinkler system? I personally like to let the back sides breathe.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Rick, they are 2 single faced signs back to back with a 4 inch space between them.
So you are saying that hardener makes the paint more brittle? Is so, I'm glad to know that. I thought it only improved gloss, stickabilty to non friendly surfaces, and sped up dry & cure time.
Thanks for the info.
------------------ Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 ICQ: 21604027 sherwood@up.net
Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I have been preparing backgrounds by spray only for many years now, except for painted bulletins. If you want it to look sprayed on, it's hard to beat sprayed-on.
Dave Sherby:
quote:special filtered mask and nitrile gloves for mixing this stuff. The mask and gloves weren't very expensive
Do you mind posting a brand name on the respirator? I have always been told that all the cartridge types did not really protect against isocyanates. Thanks.
posted
Brad, I showed my supplier the information from the isocyantes web page and they ordered the cartridge. Its a 3M 60921. This has the HEPA pre filter plus the organic filter. These cartidges offer SOME protection while SPRAYING but not enough to be OSHA approved because they don't have an end of use indicator on them. (Not possible yet) Thus they recommend a supplied fresh air hood for spraying. I bought the filter and gloves just as an extra precaution while mixing isos into my paint to be brushed. I like using them and don't want to take any chances developing the allergic reaction to them.
Sorry if I confused you. Yes the masks are not safe for spraying isos.
The information is on the following web site which was originally posted by a letterhead a few months ago. http://www.nbm.com/autographics/bboard/4626.htm ------------------ Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 ICQ: 21604027 sherwood@up.net
[This message has been edited by Dave Sherby (edited December 20, 2000).]
Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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