posted
Morning! Hey I just got a call from a friend that seems to be afraid to touch up a gold leaf job. (Another signmaker past the job to him)
Its a huge yacht, with a thin engine turned stripe that has been chipped & scratched here & there. Now, am I supposed to touch up the whole job or just the damaged areas? It has to be dealt with from the water.
I hear the guy is a major pain... but I want this job! (Or should I let it go?)
Any suggestions?
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
If you think the guy is a major pain, wait til you try traditional guilding, outling and striping on a boat in the water Life throws us enough aggravations, why deliberately seek them out? I'd pass on this one for either of the reasons.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
1. if this guy is a picky customer, then I think your in for alot of headaches.
2. Something tells me that this guy wont be happy with a touchup job, remember this, if yu have to touch it up in one spot what says it wont be a problem in the spot next to it in a week, month, or year?
3. I would recommend to the guy that the job be redone completely, or you walk away from it. This way if there is a failure of some sort at least its your failure and you didnt inherit someone elses problems.
Of course I must put in the obligatory disclaimer to this reply. I am relatively new to the sign business however I have been in business for years. I learned that nothing is worse than inheriting someone elses headaches
good luck Felix and see you in Mars
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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A lot of factors come into play on something like this. How far above the water is this stripe and can you reach it while rocking around in a small boat? ( You said the boat is "huge".) Has the stripe been cleared with something? If it has, it will be tough to match if you only patch the damaged areas, and only because clears- especially varnish- tend to darken over time.
Wherever this boat is docked, is there even room for a small boat to get in between it and the next one over? Is the boat going to have to be turned around so you have access to the side next to the dock? Is it anchored offshore?
Just from the matching angle, I would recommend a full re-stripe, and do not clear. Don't try to work with book gold. Gold can be had in roll form, 67 feet long and widths from whatever up to 3 inches.
Quantity needed-- figure the length of the stripe(s) and at least double it. You will get "holidays" here and there, and there is no getting around that. Gold width a little wider than the actual stripe. Fast size may be too fast for this considering the length of the boat, and the fact that you will want ideal weather-- sunny, and no threat of rain.
Warranty-- none-- if it has been dinged before, it will get dinged again.
Pricing, not much help on that, but you must figure in travel time, arranging for a small boat, and a certain amount of inconvenience factor for the need to do it from a boat rather than on shore, and better yet, inside where weather and wind are not in the equation. Keep in mind the pain in the a-- thing, and do not let this guy work you over on price. After all, a boat is just a toy, and not a necessity.
Just our .02
[ May 14, 2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Felix....yeah, it could be a pain-in-the-*ss job, but it sounds like the guy is having a problem finding someone to do it. You might possibly make a week's pay with this one job. Price it high. You may get it, and if not, nothing lost. Good luck.
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I would never attempt this job while the boat is in the water... too many things can happen and they are all bad. Tell him you will do it the next time he pulls it.
I've done a few stripe repairs, but the vessel was always 'on the hill'. Usually, the dings are near the bow- caused by running into trash, large branches, etc that may be in the water. There's just no way to avoid it. Sometimes a fender will slip and get into the stripe further back on the hull. You wont be able to get an exact match, but the customer will usually settle for it when compared to the price of a complete new stripe.
Bill, I think I totally disagree with you about not clearing. With the normal abuse and washing that any boat endures, I am curious how unprotected leaf could last a month? I'm not trying to be a smartass, but please enlighten me.
-------------------- Jay Nichols ALPHABET SOUP
~the large print giveth and the small print taketh away~ Posts: 176 | From: SW Florida | Registered: Mar 2002
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What I said about not clearing is not cut in stone-- it is just my opinion. Gold by itself is not subject to deterioration from weather, sun etc. I have had bad experiences with clears over gold-- especially varnishes whether UV shielded or not. Think I've tried them all--spar, polyurethane, plain urethane, the whole gamut. Most varnishes I have found will begin to break down after only a year or two-- as it flakes off, sometimes the gold goes with it-- but not always.
A friend of mine, well trained in the art of wooden boat refinishing, tells me that wood boats with varnish finish should be stripped every seven years. Then they are re-varnished with seven coats of new finish. The following year a light sanding, followed by one or two new coats. Every year, the same thing, then at seven the whole process starts over.
The other point re: not clearing is this -- I think spot repair/matching is more successful when one is matching gold to gold, and not gold to a clear which may have darkened over time.
The whole deal comes down to trade-offs-- clears have some advantages--but there are also some drawbacks.
It's not for nothing that a boat is defined as a hole in the water into which one pours vast amounts of money.
FWIW, I know you are not being smarta-- just looking for clarification.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Seems to me that it is hard enough to do good work under the best of conditions, and I can't see how bobbing around like a cork is going to help. Add in the fact that the customer seems to be a PIA, and it totals up to a disaster in the making. Tell him you'll do it when the boat in hauled, and price it high. If he can afford the boat, he can afford the price. Just my opinion.
-------------------- Ben Sherr Street Metal Custom Auto Art 3006 River Rd Hopewell, Va 23860 (804)452-1540 Bjay65@msn.com Posts: 77 | From: Hopewell, Virginia | Registered: Mar 2002
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LETS SEE... YOU'LL BE WORKING FROM A DINGY ON YOUR BELLY FOR AT LEAST A DAY... YOU HAVE TO CONTEND TWO BOATS ROCKING WITH THE CHANGE IN TIDES...PROBABLY LOOKING AT SOME BRUISED RIBS AND YOU COULD LOOSE YOUR FAVORITE BRUSH IN THE DRINK.
TELL HIM YOU'LL PAY HIM NOT TO DO IT
HAHAHAHA
-------------------- james perkins boston, ma Posts: 38 | From: boston | Registered: Jan 2002
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Lemme see... Your friend "seems to be afraid" to do this, and the job was passed on to him by another signpainter, and the boat owner is a well-known PIA, my first thought is that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably just that - a TURKEY, which will gobble(gobblegobble!) up your time and efforts and leave you wishing you'd had ham last Thanksgiving. You say you "really want this job". What I think you really want is a gold job on a boat, but trust me, this is not the one that's going to make your reputation as the go-to guy. Jay Nichols said it best - there are lots of things that can happen and they are all bad. But hey, if you are feelin' froggy, by all means jump - but try to protect yourself from a hard landing. 1. It's a touch-up - therefore you specifically and emphatically explain that you CANNOT promise that your repair will not be visible as a repair under close scrutiny. If this guy is going to do the smell test (sticking his nose in your work to try to find fault) he WILL find it! Remember that the basic idea of a gold stripe is that it's bright, shiny, and says "hey look! I can afford gold on MY boat!" to other boaters. It's not, nor should it have to be, an example of showcase-perfect gilding.
2. It's in the water. Therefore it's an automatic PIA, no matter what. Your custome has to agree to YOUR conditions - the boat is on a dock, in a quiet area (not near a channel with other boats going by every minute, rocking it insanely) with the area to be repaired easily accessible (and YOU, not the owner, decides what this means!) AND he's willing to move it as needed. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you agree to work on this from a dinghy! Ask me how I know!(sob)
3. Find out as much as you can about the original job. What kind of clear was used? How long ago was it done? If you expect it to look like it was before, you essentially have to replicate the process - not that it will help, cause it will be a visible repair under scrutiny (see #1), but you might as well start by knowing all you can.
4. Remember that two people have already said "ahhh, No thanks!" on this job already, which will tell you that he's running out of options - folks aren't standing in line salivating over the chance to do this job. Charge waay too much and keep the money! Chances are by the time you're done, you'll wish it had been more. And by all means get as much as possible up front.
5. Remember - if the customer balks at ANY of this, back out of the job. NO can be a very valuable word in this case. And if he agrees too easily to everything, he's A. Desperate to find ANYBODY who will do this(in which case you ask for extras, like a nice bottle of Ron Rico to drown your sorrows), or B. He's trying to get something for nothing, or he's an impossbly anal whacko that nobody can stand to be around or work for. Talk to other working people around the boatyard, they'll tell you.
Good luck, Felix. You'll need it.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks for all the opinions guys! All points taken. I called the guy & left a message but he hasnt called back. I'll give it another shot today. Thanks for the tips about doing it out of the water. Thanks for all the tips!
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Life throws us enough aggravations, why deliberately seek them out? I'd pass on this one for either of the reasons.
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