I don't offer any warranty....period. There are way too many variables when it comes to lettering on a boat. All I offer is that the work done is to exacting industry standards. If a job fails sooner than I think it should, then I'll do what I can to make it right. But, I make the decision.
For example, I had a customer to contact me a few days ago. One of the colors I used in a screen print job failed sooner than either of us thought it should. I had screened a set of metal panels with Nazdar 3200 Medium Yellow. The manufacturer rates that color to last an average of 2 years outdoors. The signs were installed at a beach in Florida and do not face toward the ocean. In this case, the yellow ink didn't last 6 months, although the other colors still look great.
Even though I did everything to the manufacturer's specs, I'm doing what I can to make things right for the customer. Meanwhile, I'm researching and trying to find out why it failed. After talking to technicians from Nazdar, CrecentBronze and 3M, I'm finding out, there may have been nothing I could have done any differently. And, them's da breaks.
[ May 12, 2002, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Most automotive manufacturers will not warranty ureathane paint finishes over one year.The new ureathanes will outlast almost any finish available today but as Glenn stated there are way to many variables out there,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The art of Goldleaf is a great and wonderful craft. A craft I intend to learn and hope to master before I pass. For lettering boats I think Signgold is the way to go. It's rich and classy looking and easy to use.
I give my customers a 1 year warranty on my application skills and the manufacturers warranty on the vinyl. That's 14 years on the Signgold and 7 years on the high perf. stuff.
Last friday evening, I lettered a boat using florentine Signgold and black outline, done in a nice script. Rich and classy is what they wanted and they got it. The customer was thrilled. Further down the dock was a boat I lettered 3 summers ago with the same Signgold. It looked as good as the day I pulled the mask off. It's the only way to go for quick turn around and high quality.
But, like Glenn says, there are variables and ya never know.
Good luck!
Joel
-------------------- Joel H. Peters Peter Pan Sign Graphics Cary,Il. "Doin' it Good since 1974" Posts: 114 | From: Cary,IL,USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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Sign Gold, YES. Warrantee, NO. I have had a few of my WATER customers come back to me with "My letters are coming off"... every one of them has been due to abuse or boneheadedness on the part of the client. Running the boat into the rubber bumpers at the dock will screw things up. With wave runners I have had to replace (at their cost) letters and graphics that have been damaged do to one or the other watercraft being RUN OVER by each other.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Don't forget to seal the edges on the Signgold..It's a great product and I don't use the old fashioned gold leaf technique anymore. Although I must admit the hand-laid gold leaf looks richer. I've heard that you shouldn't put a vinyl outline on top of a Signgold edge. I usually put Signgold on top of the vinyl outline and seal the edge of the gold.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think you have created the perfect oxymoron!
Never the less I would never warrantee anything for longer than a year and even then,the customer has to understand you won't replace anything that was damaged by them or anyone else.
I had one just the other day...(cusomer quote) "Some of the letters are falling off my race car". "You must have done something wrong"...I told him to bring it in and I'd fix it if it was faulty at my expense...ha ha he wasn't even smart enough to clean the tire mark off the area scuffed.
WARANTEE EXPIRED!!! (Falling off, indeed...)
[ May 13, 2002, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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Okay, so I'm going to be a target here... I don't do SignGold on boats. Not because I don't like SignGold, it has it's place, but that's not the point. I don't want to get off on a rant here; but I don't much care for vinyl on boats, period. Boats are complex structures, each surface being some form or another of compound curve or angle, with an infinite variety of obstructions, surface conditions, etc. I have never seen any computer-generated image on a boat that looked as good as that which is drawn by hand by a skilled painter, taking the visual aspect of all the various curves and angles into account. Ah, but this was about gold leaf, wasn't it? Simply put, by offering SignGold, you are offering a product, not a service. Gold leaf carries with it a mystique, an aura of esoteric skills and deep, traditional secrets. Okay, it's mostly BS - laying gold is far more easily learned than hand-lettering, for example - but to the client, it's a bit of magic, of alchemy. USE IT! Boat owners pay huge money to people who do nice things to their precious toys, especially when there's a bit of voodoo involved - and to that kind of boat owner, real gold is something very special.
I'm going to here the usual chorus of "nobody wants to pay for it..." which is nonsense. Not everyone is going to want to pay for it, and that's the point. What would you rather do - make a couple hundred sticking vinyl or SignGold, or a couple thousand while making your client (and his boat) the object of envy - and repeat business - from the yacht club? Boat owners are notorious "keeping up with the Jones's" people, and there's nothing like a nice gold job to get them salivating.
So, won't the same thing happen with SignGold? Well, yes and no. Boat owners talk to each other all the time. Which conversation about you would you rather overhear? A. "He(or she) came out hear with this stuff he cut out on his computer - fifteen minutes later it's all done." or B. "Man, you should have seen this guy work. First he lays everything out with some kind of pencil, then he's got these special mixtures they get from France or someplace, and it's gotta be painted on, very fussy. Then he comes back and he's got this box with these little books with gold on the pages, I wouldn't even want to look at this stuff too hard, its so delicate. You watch him put this stuff on, and it looks like a big mess, but then he takes this special brush and cotton and next thing you know, there's the letters! Oh that pattern? you ain't gonna believe this. He uses a DRILL! He's got this thing, like a tiny buffer, and it makes all those swirls. Then he clear coats it with some other special sauce, and I'm not allowed to touch it for a week. Yeah, I tell you, it wasn't cheap, but this guy knows what he's doing. None of this stick-on crap. You gotta call this guy!"
From the first conversation, they get the impression that "anyone" can do this, resulting in all the usual price-shopping. From the second, they get an impression of expertise and specialized skill that "only you" can provide.
Take your pick.
Oh, and as for warranties? It's like this. I guarantee my work forever, or until you scratch, buff, dent, drag stuff across, or otherwise abuse it. Leave it here in the boat shed and it will last forever. Put it in the water and all bets are off. But if you call me next spring, I'll come touch it up, and it will look good as new for half the money. (boat owners LOVE hearing "half the money", no matter how much "half" is!)
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. (sorry Dennis)
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Some good responses here. I do both vinyl and paint on boats, though boat jobs are rare for me. In this neck of the woods the clientelle that have the money for real gold leaf, have their boats way across the state! I just sell those folks stuff for their bikes .
Cam; Do you clear over your goldleaf? Just curious, I've heard good arguments for doing it both ways.
-------------------- Jon Androsky Posts: 438 | From: Williamsport, PA | Registered: Mar 2002
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In my opinion for what its worth, Cam hit the nail on the head.
That VooDoo kinda thing gets you more money than Signgold.(but Signgold is cheaper to install figuring time and material)
Signgold is a very good product that I have worked with probably for 12 years now and would use it for a boat, depending on the type of boat and the customer. If it were a small boat, then I would probably lean more towards the Signgold. But if it were a large pleasure boat (those 6 figure jobs) then I definitely would recommend real gold leaf. I guess its sorta like looking at cars. The Hyundai Accent gets vinyl stripes and the Ferrari gets painted accents.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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