posted
I read a post this morning about some logo sharing thing. Someone was aking for a logo that was for a franchise, the logo was not supplied by the customer in usable format, and this person was searching for the logo on this board.
There was some discussion about wether it was a free service this sign person was providing or that he should charge for his services even though he was obtaining the logo already to print.
Hence the new topic, because this should be a great topic for discussion & learning
I truly believe no matter how we as proffessionals have to obtain the necessary artwork whether we draw it, scan & clean it up or rely on this wonderful resource such as the BB this service should be charged ( & paid ) for.
My customer comes to me why? because he needs my services. He is usually willing to pay a fee for them as well. Someone does not always value what they get for free. I view this BB as a supplier much like my regular sign supplier.
If I ask for a logo that I do not have I believe that it should be paid for or at least offered to be paid for. If a letterhead wants to offer this logo to me for free, then I would be in debt to this person for another favor.
I also believe that if the customer can't supply the artwork ready for print than they should pay a fee to get that file or artwork ready for production, this takes your time and money.
It is all about respect and demanding respect ( by charging for services )
This thread is not to bash anyone or make fun of anyone, but merely to help educate others that might be doing themselves a disservice by giving away thier time and talents
Let's see some healthy responses here.
PLEASE leave your ego's and attitudes at the door!
[ April 30, 2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Some have called your position snobbery or elitist. It seems to me to be a call for applying common business practices and ethics. These discussions should be encouraged. We should be encouraging each other to be more upfront on charges to the customer for recreation or searching for their logos and artwork.
I have made the same mistake and will be sure to be more upfront about charges in the future.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
I digitized a piece last night from a pounce pattern by a striper. I will sell the 8 mask I cut from the digitized piece at a reasonable profit and future sales, and I have an agreement with him for my use of the piece. I consider the compensation for doing things like this beforehand and if I can foresee extra profit in my use of a piece, I make an agreement for its use. In the case of a logo, no such use can be assumed and charges for services should be included in the billing.
posted
yes, it is nice to charge for everything. its nicer to charge a comprehensive fee that covers the basics.
i just bought a bike the other day from a mid-to-high end bike shop. the shop includes a year of maintenance and adjustments, and they will pretty much do what's neccessary to make the bike fit me from the start -- change the pedals or swap out handlebars, for instance. if i wanted an upgraded part, they would have charged me for the difference in price. i'm just using this as an example of "comprehensive" service.
on the other post about logos, the amount "$300" was being tossed about, and that seemed a bit extreme for the cost to locate an existing logo. in an ideal world, you tell the customer "give your logo in an eps, ai, or cdr format or else we'll have to charge you a research fee or charge you to digitize the art."
personally, i allow for a certain ammount of "research time" in every new job. i'm selling a "comprehensive service" package to customers, so that is built into the job cost, and not broken out as a line item. i consider it the cost of building trust and establishing a customer relationship.
yes, i do charge for creating a logo from scratch, or having to create vector art from an existing image.
on all jobs i break the "design fee" out from the rest. (I tell them "this amount is for the design and layout, and this other amount is for the production of the sign."). that way my $320 sign doesn't look like a $620 sign (since there is $300 in design).
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I agree wholehartadly, the fact that it's a little league signor whatever should have no bearing on it. The trouble to locate/scan/cleanup is the same as it would be for a truck door or a sandblasted sign. The computer age has brought us many good things and a few bad ones. Spending an afternoon hunting an unprovided logo , because everybody else provides the service free is one of the negatives Before computers, you were not expected to execute a difficult logo for the same price as simple lettering, they simply didn't ask...now because almost EVERYBODY does it customers have come to expect it ...$25 magnetics and an all day search for a logo for a $50 don't ya just love it?
By the way I got a call about hand lettering some 40 foot Bekins moving vans, could somebody send me their patterns, thanks in advance
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I run my business similar to what Scooter described. I will always show a design fee as a line item, so the re-order price is established & so any negotiations on price can be split into paying less for less design or for less sign. But I also will build in some assumed costs in my comprehensive package.
I don't have too many customers that will trust me to add up time & materials after the money is spent. People like a firm quote. It gets tricky to quote where design work is required, & I do a brief free consultation to absorb the clients vision, then I quote with a understanding that there may be 1 or 2 minor revisions after the first proof. Anyway I sometimes have a sign bid for a set price based on size, material, & a approximate idea of what the design is supposed to end up being. I have designed myself into a less profitable sign upon occassion, but that is part several learning curves. How to learn to trust that I can design well enough to command a higher price on both the artwork & the sign, as well as how to better estimate the price a sign should be before completing the design, or how to know when to NOT quote the sign until the design work is done.
As for "hunting" down corporate logos or clip art, I would have already asked the client to provide that with the incentive of saving time & money (based on the complexity of the art)If they do not get it for me, I will be paid for that. I will set the price based on my own re-draw time, but if a resource can be tapped, such as this BB, or a neighboring shop then this can be a time saver. As for the value of that time saved, I agree with Bob (and pretty much everyone else so far)that a fee should be offered &/or paid. Even if that fee is just to return the favor. Or even to "Pay it forward" like the movie.
Or how about we pass $50 to the person on our left right before we pay our annual membership fee. Now we all have credit to do some "giving" & "helping" without it being construed as de-valuing our skills or services, or as laziness, or cheapness. So much money & material wealth is flowing every which way constantly that it is too much to track sometimes, but one commodity that IS finite is time. Why should we all sit in our own corners all drawing the "Play it again Sports" logo at the same time?
posted
i just finished a van....the client brought me two small color prints of a couple of cartoon(free domaine)guys and said he got them from another sign guy and he wants them on the doors of the van.should i have not PAINTED them on the doors? his request, iam doing a job of my own design other then these 2 cartoons. another example: another sign guy who i did some work for brings me a business card of EASYRIDER shop, this is going in town here, he got the job of making the signs, but he dont have a vinyl cutter nor does he paint. ok...so i tell him CRA PLEASE!!!! he cant get it. i spent a whole day looking thru my fonts to find the one for EASYRIDER. no luck. the little motor cycle "clipart" was an easy scan of business card, blow it up, print, trace and then rescan. so i went to a motorcycle shop i did their sign, and got a copy of EASYRIDER mag. figured since i didnt have font it was hand drawn and the it was a CORP LOGO....ok i call EASYRIDER in calif. ask them for a vector of their art work....well they tell me that these people are not authorized to use the logo that they havent worked out all the legal stuff yet and i should stop what iam doin!!!! well i wound up painting the signs, used an opaque projector to get logo to sign, blew a $50 bulb in the process, wasted 2 days looking for font, was so mad i gave this guy a bill for all of my troubles which was twice what i told him i would do the work for......and he paid me what i quoted him, and hasent been back since......so see where logos can get you. another funny logo story, and this was for a $50 baseball field in sarasota. DOCTORS HOSPITAL paid for a sign, 42"x60". on this sign the "marketing director" of the place wanted me to paint a copy of get this...an old masters painting of joseph,mary hold the baby jesus!!!!!!! on that sign....and the best part was when i called her to explain i couldnt do this for $50, she said the people that sold her the add said i COULD DO THIS!!!!! and that she would never support the little league ever again!!!! needless to say all she got was the name of the hosptial in colors close to what here PMS colors where!!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by ScooterX: on the other post about logos, the amount "$300" was being tossed about, and that seemed a bit extreme for the cost to locate an existing logo.
Just for the record, I first used the $300 figure as a reference to spending 6 hours redrawing and tweaking a logo obtained from scanning lousy customer-provided print, such as a business card or phonebook ad. From there, somebody else twisted it into a vector file hunting fee.
I think alot of people get caught up in running their business like it's a hobby, instead of running it like a business. They dont want people to think they're getting boned, but their "whishy-washiness" is very apparent to their customers. Run your business like a business, in the game with the intention of making profit. Drop the "softie" attitude and instill confidence in your customers.
Get paid for your time, all of it, no matter who the customer is.. charity or fortune 500 corporation.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
If your able to point and click a file from a web site, friends e-mail or whatever, and you are going to charge a fee for that "service", shouldn't you also charge a fee to point and click when you order order vinyl, banners or whatever as well?
What do you charge for your pointing and clicking?
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Good point made Bob,...I gave one of the local shops a local corporate logo I had already digitized as it had been changed since the logo posted on the russian site,on the terms that they charge the normal fee for art digitizing witha smile,and not use it unethically,... As for the question of charging for the clicking and pointing,...my isp charges me for the privilage as do the computer parts manufacturer that makes the components I built this pc from,and the power company charges me for the electricity to run it...I personally charge by the hour for any design although I may not itemize it for the client it is still part of the final invoice,if they save time because they do not persue legal action against the "logo sites" so be it. If they do not supply me with finished artwork files ready to cut they pay for the time it takes me to digitize the art work.If I have to chase down artwork over the phone from their ad agency or design department they pay for that time too,....
Oh yea George we used to letter those things too, with the bottom of the copy arched here, seems the patterns went the way of the dumpster awhile back tho bud,...
Although I don't know how many art files can be just point & click from a web site. ( who knows am I missing something )? also didn't it take time to find that site log onto the internet and obtain it?
And while we are on the subject how many include the "sell" time into a job?
I learned that from an old timer once when I asked him to help me priceout a job I had never done before. Of course I only do it on the big jobs but too many of the little ones need it too
[ May 01, 2002, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Not sure I agree with ALWAYS charging a "design" fee.....like Cheryl posted on another thread...if the job is quick and easy, and not a huge moneymaker...the customer isn't going to want to fork over "extra" for cleaning up a logo.
Maybe I'm wrong, and should change my practices, but I generally figure a little extra time into the overall cost of the job....as I think a "Design Fee" charge separated out seems to stick out to people as an extra charge, whereas they don't seem to question a single price for the entire job.
But, I gotta say...this concept is making more sense to me as a customer came over to my place the other day to have me make a set of magnetics for him. He sat right next to me for 3 hours having me "move this element here and there" and change this font, and that font, and on-and-on.
I had told him the cost for the mags were $110. So I feel like I made nothing for the job after dinking around for so long.
Actually, as I type this out....I am proving your logic to myself...and I think I will begin at this moment charging a design fee up-front.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I can’t speak for anybody else, but here it is accounted for. The time to issues a PO, order the material, receive the material to stock, and then satisfy the AP end is all part of MY cost to handle that item.
To simplify things, invoiced labor rate is $60/hr. Say it takes 15 minutes to account for all the above time to get an Edge color cartridge on the shelf. List price of a GCS foils is $97.50. Add $15 for the billable labor time in order to get it on the shelf. My Estimate entry for a GCS foil would then reflect a “cost” of $112.50. (And I can’t remember the last time a paid list price for an Edge cartridge) I attempt to cover all costs in order to provide a fair price to all customers and a fair profit for the company. I believe operating in such a fashion will allow me to be here for the duration to provide my services to the customer.
Good point, thanks for mentioning it!
-------------------- Bob Gilliland InKnowVative Communications Harrisburg PA, USA
"The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin Posts: 642 | From: Harrisburg, PA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Todd, there ya go... my point. In a situation like that though, it's tough to get your time back.. you know the job would have taken less than an hour from start to finish had the customer not been sitting there, yet given the nature of magnetics there's no way he would have paid $180 just for the design time. Chalk it up to experience and make yourself a new sign "This is NOT a circus, we dont work with an audience!"
You are right though.. some smaller jobs arent worth the design fee associated with them, but in the same respect those same jobs arent worth the time to hunt down a usable file either, let the customer do it for you or let them pay the design fees.. or do it yourself knowing your return on your time is dwindling away... or refuse the job.
I get many requests every day for decals and graphics that the prospect saw somewhere else, which usually means it's junk on a CD or mass produced somewhere. I refer them to other businesses as it's not worth the time to hunt that stuff down, nor do I particularly care for the canned graphics... I can make more profit and turn out a better quality product using my own designs.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Todd, I had to juggle a couple of folks who wanted to sit by my puter all day and just talk about everything. They each had big complicated jobs that involved them coming to my office daily and noting the progress of the designs, wanted to make decisions and do the midstream back and forth stroke LOL. Sometimes they would sit there all day and just talk about hiding at my office to avoid other things, blah blah blah.
I told them each that when I am at work I make X amount of money per hour. If I have to stop and converse with them, then I am suddenly on their clock. I dropped the mouse and clocked my time with every interuption, to drive my point home. They each asked what their bills were up to, I told them. Surprise, surprise. I told them that in the real world, it takes 10 minutes to an hour to place an order.
Then I took it a step further and scheduled the first one at 8am and the second starting at 9am. Due to their inability to respect each other's time with me, that went over like a cancelled Ted Nugent concert ha ha ha!
The following day, I had them in again and reversed the order of who came in when. They soon learned just how time becomes money. (they were very polite to each other the second go round and very respectful of my time as well!)
Just put a sign on your "area" that says "My time is paid for by you...at X/hour." or one that says, "Thank you for my time."
posted
Thanks for the advice Mike and Linda. Part of my problem, is that this sign stuff isn't my "regular job". I do it after hours with the exception of occassionally checking out the interesting posts here. I did do this as my sole income for a year and a half stretch, which isn't much, but enough to show me how a guy can take a screwing.
So, I don't really run a full time legit business like a lot of you, but I'm not a hack that got into this for the beer money either. I want and expect to get paid fairly and don't want to devalue the trade.
On the other hand, I must admit that being "home-based", I feel I can make the profit I want and at the same time come in cheaper than a storefront business (I think).
But I don't want to be known as the "cheap guy". People come to me for the creativity, as I'm a graphic designer by trade. They know it'll look decent.
A local guy decided to invest in the equipment and do "race car" graphics and stuff. No design experience. Just your typical "Mr. Clipart" guy. And what little stuff he and his son do, looks like @!*t. Now this guy probably doesn't charge much, but then again, his clipart junk isn't worth much either.
For me, it comes down to, if I don't make decent profit for my "side jobs", then I'm not gonna do it....cause I'd rather spend time with my wife and kids if it's only gonna get me a pitence.
So thanks again Mike....I'm not gonna get screwed again!!!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
"What is Life...but Time?" -Benjamin Franklin I think old Ben had a point here that relates (to the original post). Our resources may seem unlimited in terms of what can be found, scanned, created, etc. but the final question is always "how do you value your TIME?" which can also translate as "How do you value your LIFE?"
Personally, my life is precious to me. By that measure, so is my time. Like any precious commodity, I choose carefully how it is spent. There are people who are important to me (friends and family) for whom my time (and life) are given freely - in order to be able to do that, there must be people (my customers) who are required to PAY for that time. So how I choose is not a matter of small importance, it is VITAL. Ask yourself - how would you like to spend an hour? Working for an unappreciative customer for free? Or at home playing with your child, or making love, or enjoying a walk outside, or in a conversation with a friend? Suppose it is your LAST hour (any of them could be!) Did you use it wisely? There's nothing "snobby" or "elitist" about charging for the time spent working for a customer, NO MATTER WHAT THAT WORK CONSISTS OF. And consequently, there's no point in working for a customer who refuses to compensate you for your time - why on earth would you want that type of customer to begin with? It is nothing more than recognizing the value of a limited and precious resource, and acting appropriately.
BTW, the degree to which this issue concerns me is demonstrated by the time I spent writing (and reviewing, editing, and correcting) this post.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I know where your coming from. I too, am home based and desk published. I spent 12 years as a full time pinstriper/letterer and the last 19 as a full time locomotive engineer/pinstriper ect.
As a partimer, it is very hard . The love of the craft keeps me going and the extra cash is useful. But, it still is a business and needs to run like one or you can literally go broke and start to have money problems with your 40 hour gig.
Being homebased I try to figure out my cost to do business and have a shop rate. You should still have a sharp and presentable business image. Have nice cards and nice rolling advetisement shop vehicle. Even if you don't want to grow or go fulltime, you should always put your best foot forward. I control my growth with only trying to do good work and trying to rely on nice layout and design. I limit my scope to only truckletttering and a little sign work. I can only do X amount of jobs a month. You can't promise too much. You still gotta have time for family and a little time for stress relieving hobby(pinstriping? ).
It's tough . But, you should charge based on your quality,knowledge,and experience. You need to always make a profit and cover your costs. With out profit and what it can bring, you run the risk of hating why you got started in this in the first place. The same principles that require a six man/woman shop to stay in business and flourish apply to my basement/garage/driveway operation. Your costs may be bit lower and therefore overall selling price a bit lower, but it doesn't make your talent and skills any less valuable.
I don't compete with anyone. I luckily after 25 years have a decent customer base. I pick and choose carefully. If I can't do a job or it is too big or complicated I always refer that customer to some other good shop.
I'm rambling again. It's just that it took me along time myself to figure out that because I'm a small operation that I can still charge what is fair and make a profit. Special thanks go to SignCraft and Letterville.
To Cam Bortz: Great post! I think you really nailed it and put the subject of time and chargeability in the right contex.
I'm gonna stop now.
Joel
-------------------- Joel H. Peters Peter Pan Sign Graphics Cary,Il. "Doin' it Good since 1974" Posts: 114 | From: Cary,IL,USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT.....LIKE WITH LAWYERS, I ALWAYS CHARGE BY THE MINUTE! ANYHOW, IF YOU'RE A BUSINESSMAN, YOU SHOULD CHARGE FOR YOUR TIME. I FIND THE PROBLEM IS WHAT TO CALL IT.......ART CHARGE...SETUP....CONSULTATION.....!?!?!?!?! ONCE YOU NAME IT, YOU SHOULD CHARGE FOR IT! BUT, LIKE I SAID, EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT!
This is a very interesting thread, thank you for posting it! We should all be aware of where we are going, so we don't get skeered when we get there LOL!
Jim,
Aye matey! They have.
A guy called me yesterday and tried to convince me to knock out 4 signs (in an hour) before he could arrive to pick them up. I spewed coffee. I told him I didn't do the quickie signs. He argued with, "But I saw your van and it looks like decals!" I said, "Dude, it was hand lettered with paint." "He said, "Ooooh!" The fact was, he didn't call me yesterday so he's not on my schedule today. "Have a great day!" (click)
Since I don't own a plotter, and no longer need to cut vinyl by hand (Thank you Corel!) I used to spend 1-2 hours finding someone who would take these customers from me and ask for nothing in return. I'm thinking the customers have phone books and I'm not in them now...for obvious reasons LOL! All, so I could free up my time for paying work!
Todd,
You're welcome. I juggled two kids on my own and worked out of the trunk of my car most of the time. The only time I took less than the job was worth out right, was when I was contracted to do work for another shop. When operating my own gigs, I told folks I had kids to feed and lights to keep on. If they weren't spending anything they were at the wrong store. Funny enough, they respected me for it. Actually I worded it different. "Your time is precious and I don't want to waste any of it. Please treat me in the same manner." or "I'm on the clock with another client right now. Would you care to pay his tab?" (rush fee)
One thing I've found interesting, is they always want what they can't have. So if you're busy, cheerful and confident - that alone will attract them. They like to prove you wrong sometimes, so letting them "know" you're too busy and they couldn't afford you anyway seems to be a lucrative way to respond to some clients.
*** BOTTOM LINE ***
Profit is definitely a good thing! Work that into your business plan!
[ May 02, 2002, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Linda Silver Eagle ]
posted
I'm really happy to see this post going in a positive and informative way.
Just today I had a guy come in and want his name designed in a shape, I had a shape already on a clip art disk that I own. ( one of the very few ) anyway I told him it would be a one time fee of $50.00 for a set up and then a seperate price for the edge prints.
He agreed no problem, and even though I had an image already on disk that I can use, I still took the time to lay it out and set it up for edge printing.
I was happy I did it.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey, this is a sideline for me too.. my full time gig is screwin' off at the beach. Or working on my truck.. like this morning I just finished installing a suspension lowering kit.
Seriously though, I value my personal time more than anything else and that's why I try to keep my volume of sales to a limited amount, which means I charge just as much if not more than a larger shop with a retail location. Although I do enjoy the work I do (love the creative aspect) I would rather not work 40 hours per week, it doesnt leave enough time to do other stuff! I already worked hard to eliminate other bills and payments from my life so I could have more of my life! Now my bills are pretty easily managed so it doesn't take much income to be comfortable.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Mike Pipes, you got it. Ol' Ben would be proud of you.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ahhhhh, what i wouldn't give to have some free time. My inlaws spend their winters in Bullhead City, AZ. That's gotta be close to you I would think? Gotta love the warm winters.....just stay away from the casino's when the Hell's Angels come into Laughlin.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Time at work is time that needs to be paid for.
Design time is worth more than shop time... if only because of the ideas that go with the design time.
I charge $100 per hour if I am not working at a quoted price. I prefer to design to a quoted price but some jobs I design are really big and open ended. So the flat hourly rate works best. There is no limit on revisions when the customer os paying by the hour... it's their nickel and they understand that they are paying for my time and the ideas that come with it.
Quite often when I am designing by the hour it involves some meetings as well... this time is charged out at $50 per hour... if the customer wants to talk about the weather or whatever... that's OK with me. Meeting time isn't as productive and it gets me away from my desk which is OK from time to time... like a paid coffee break or lunch.
For larger projects there are often ideas that I have done for others over the years that work with slight tweaking. I have racks of CD's that I have burned over the years with sketches and drawings for others. With the computer it is simple and quick to rework, colorize etc. to make the ideas fit into the current job. The current customer pays as if the designs are done from scratch. Ultimately they are paying for the ideas represented and not just the design time. At the same time I will try to use my time efficiently for the sake of my customer. Lots of design tricks can cut down the time it takes to produce a presentation. Even though I may be the most expensive guy around by the hour, I believe I can save money for the customer by doing it better the first time through. This is VALUE.
I also try to be extremely fair with my customer and give them good value through a job. Not every minute I sit at my desk is billable time... and I adjust the total to reflect the interuptions, breaks and nonproductive time are taken into account.
I will do rough sketches with a customer present but all 'real' design work is done in private for the most part. Sometimes a small revision is done with the customer there but I try to avoid it if possible.
It is all a learning curve and every day I learn more.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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