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I have the opportunity to bid on a job to letter (logo, phone #, license #'s) the doors of a fleet of about 150 pick-up sized trucks. Although this really cool (yippee and all that!), I've not done a fleet of this size before (now I'm panicking!). So I'm turning to you all for a little advice, if I may.
1. We would be removing existing vinyl logos and lettering; any suggestions on a relatively quick and painless way to do that?
2. They'd like me to price it out comparing cut vinyl to the cost of having the job digitally printed. The printouts would obviously look better because the logo we designed for them has drop shadows and fades. I can get them printed locally but thought I'd ask if anyone knows of a reputable company I might check with who would also offer competitive wholesale pricing?
3. And talkin' about pricing . . . how might ya all price a job like this? I think I'd price it like we do any other job, but concerning a fleet of this size, any thing I should look out for?
I greatly appreciate any and all opinions, advice and whatever else ya wanna send my way!
Thanks,
Dean
-------------------- Dean Stafford Dean's DeSigns Phoenix, AZ Posts: 20 | From: Phoenix, AZ., USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Dean- Figure out how many minutes it'll take to remove the lettering from one truck. Multiply that by 150 trucks. Divide by 60. Now that you know how many hours it'll take multiple that amount by your shop's hourly rate. Add materials. I'm coming up with about $30.00 per truck. Sure it's $4,500 but let them do one truck themselves and I bet they'll hand the check over immediately!
Without seeing the design (perceived value) and without knowing the size it's hard to come up with an idea on price.
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Quick and painless? No. Depends on what those other logos are. There’s a good article in the last Sign Builder Illustrated by Butch Anton. Sounds like heat, Rapid Remover and elbow grease is the way to go. Make sure that you figure it into your price. There was a post here a while ago (sorry I can’t remember the name) that described microwaving a wet towel and then laying the hot steamy towel over the vinyl for fast removal. I need to try this one.
If you are already cutting vinyl, perhaps you could re-design the logo to use solid vinyl shadows instead of gradient shadows. You can produce the logo in overlays. The fades can be done with an airbrush or krylon and then cleared with One-Shot UV clear or frogjuice. If you are going to prepare 300 logos (2 sides of 150) set your shop up like a little factory. Most of the work can be done in the shop.
If you go with the digital print, it will cost much more… or HIS cost should be much more. Then again, you will have to consider the time you have to invest in multiple cuts, weeding, masking and overlays compared to ready-to-go digital prints. Depending on the complexity of the logo, there may not be much of a difference. If you do not have an edge or another digital printer, I’m sure that you could job that out to someone.
150 trucks… do you give your customer a discount for fleet service work? I have done this. If he sticks with you, you’ll make out well over time. Just make sure that you are not giving the work away or else you’ll be giving it away forever. There will be repairs, wrecks and new trucks to take care of. With 150 trucks, they might have their own service shop. Perhaps those guys can remove the old lettering AND install the new digital printed logo. You become the middle man, take the order, place the order, get your prints, deliver the prints and collect your money. Any of the price guide books will give you a good idea on what to charge. Depending on your area and your overhead, you might have to adjust that price accordingly.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Hey Dean, Are you getting nervous? Relax, this is easy money. First of all go remove the vinyl from two trucks and time it, not the travel time. Then multiply it out. I would show them the price broke down for vinyl, removal and installation. It helps them understand the price much better. Even when you airbrush 150 or more lines of copy, it really goes much quicker than you may think. I would give them a good price on the vinyl because of so many. You will still make a killing. It would help to have a gopher working in front of you preping ahead of the installation. Take extra time to set a good weed border. The weeding is much faster than the cutting. I went by the name Autographics for 16 years and did a lot of truck doors. This is really easy once you get started. the hardest part is the removal. The always seem to have the last trucks that just can't seem to get in the yard for you so make sure the understand that you still get paid. John Arnott
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Dean, Also I would not send this out for printing because there goes your profit! Cut it yourself and make some money!
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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I don't know what the design looks like, but with that quantity you may want to look into screenprinting the decals rather than digital (if you do it or have someone you trust)
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hiya Dean, A job like this can make or break you, so be very careful on the path you take! Unless all 150 trucks are almost identical and were lettered at the same time, removal of the old graphics will not be the same on each truck. Different materials may have been used and each will react differently when removing. As for the graphics, definitely consider subbing them out. Die cuttig & screen printing are 2 options I would consider, but, it all would depend on the clients schedule. If you're only doing 10 a week, I'd consider making the graphics as needed. Where will they be lettered? How many trucks are available at a single location and at what time? How soon do they need to be completed? What type of environment will the trucks be in, is there an enclosed garage or are they in a middle of a parking lot with no shelter? Pricing a job like this can be very difficult to say the least. For removal of the old graphics, I'd charge time & materials with a rough estimate per truck. Relettering would be a flat cost per truck, taking into consideration the cost of materials & graphics plus mark up. Then add in the variables. These variables woud be art prep., vehicle prep., travel time, etc. Without knowing all the details, I would try to qualify the client by estimating about $125-175 per truck for something simple but nice on 2 doors and negoiate from there. If he haggles, let him do the stripping, drop off the trucks at your location, etc. I could keep going but, it's getting late. Good luck! Havin' fun, Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Before you discount anything or buy any equipment make sure you have a contract for all 150 vehicles...seen too many guys discount a fleet then after 10 trucks they go somewhere else for anopther guys best price.
Give them two prices ...one for a per unit cost if contract can't be aquired...and another for a fleet rate with contract in hand.
If the customer is smart he'll give you the fleet contract. Good luck figuring this one
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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All the advice here is good. You'll figure it out after weighing everything.
But, Mr.Jumpers words are to be lived by concerning fleets of ten or more trucks.
By the way, are the trucks ready for revamping once you seal the deal? How will this customer get the trucks to you and will it be ten at a time or two or three? How long will this project get spread out? How will you be able to fit it in with your current work load? These are questions to think about when it comes to "Will I make any dough on this".
I hope you profit on this work.
Good luck,
Joel
-------------------- Joel H. Peters Peter Pan Sign Graphics Cary,Il. "Doin' it Good since 1974" Posts: 114 | From: Cary,IL,USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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This community ALWAYS pulls through . . . hey, awesome ideas!
Brian, excellent reminders; Jeffrey, great stuff re: the vinyl work; John, appreciate the ideas on the removal and more; Mark, I'll check screenprinting as an option; Checkers, good ?'s to ask . . . (answer? Most likely in the Phoenix sun but I'll have to see if there's an available garage); Mike . . . hmmm, something to seriously consider; Monte, yup a contract is a must.
Actually, I plan on providing samples for them and will make sure that they're happy with their decision and ALL is signed off before blade touches vinyl (at least on the quantity)!
Right now we're working up shirts for them with the new logo and are doing the paper products, etc. but the trucks were/are my main concern. I have about a month to come up with the final numbers/samples, etc. so I may be coming back to you guys again, but this certainly gives me a great start!
Still open to any other ideas, too.
Thanks again,
Dean
-------------------- Dean Stafford Dean's DeSigns Phoenix, AZ Posts: 20 | From: Phoenix, AZ., USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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I cut vinyl for 30 vehicles on a contract from a converter/installer. Good money. with the install and removal you should do OK. Get a temp to remove the vinyl, if you can swing it.
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Dean this job sounds like a big hassle. You should run away from this one. Now where did you say this truck company was? Just Kidding Dean. This job is a dream. If you can get a contract signed then maybe buying equipment would be cool. I see one problem with that. The learning curve. You will need to learn to use this new equipment. There may not be time if these trucks need to be done now. I myself would shop these prints out. Yeah you are giving money to someone else but you are not tieing up your shop trying to learn a new program. There should be enough money left over to buy an edge and learn at your own pace. Don't be nervous about this job. If you have lettered a truck before than this is the same job...just 150 times bigger. GOOD LUCK, and let us know how it works out.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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All good advice. If you do one truck and base your time on that you should be safe enough, by your 10th truck you will be doing them in half the time. The only variable that would concern me would be the removal but if all of the trucks have the same type of graphics there should not be any surprises. If you do decide to go digital let me know and I will certainly help you out with consistant quality and good prices. Good luck with it!
-------------------- Brian Stoddard Northwest Wholesale Signs
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Dean, You can get competitive digtal print prices from Gregory. Call them at 800-835-2221. I just order 8 huge 47" X 121" Scotchprints. Gregory guarantees a 5 year life but they usually last longer. Here's their website address www.gregory1.com. Good Luck, Judy
-------------------- Judy Pate Signs By Judy Albany, Georgia USA 229-435-6824
Live simply...Love generously...Care deeply...Speak kindly...Leave the rest to God. Posts: 2621 | From: Albany,GA,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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