posted
I need to get some ideas for pricing the numbers on Race cars... Also, how do you guys do pricing with sponsers and do you sponser every car you do... Not sure how that work??? This will be my first one doing it and will be excited to do it... My thought of pricing is $90 for both side with one color... The area I'm living is very small income town... What do you think???
Any ideas???
Thanks!!
-------------------- Jaime Doyle Doyle Sign & Web Design RR1 Box 351-C Grampian, PA Posts: 79 | From: Grampian, PA | Registered: Oct 2001
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1st off...you DONT SPONSOR!!!!!! if you do youll have every driver wantin you to do his lettering for the price of putting your name on the car. 2nd it will COST YOU, NOT THEM!!!!! 3rd, say the guy you do "sponsor" is not one of the best liked people at the race track, well all those that dont like him, sees your name on his car....well your his buddy and they sure wont get any work done by you. see how this snowballs?(iam from pa, i know the small town mentality) as for pricing...well if you wana do it for $90 go ahead. if your only vinly capable, you aint makin anything on this one. i paint and live in pensacola. my house is a mile from 5 FLAGS speedway. in the 4 years ive been here ive done maybe 5 cars! i can paint 3 #'s in 3 colors and add the pit crew, drivers name, and 2 sponsors freehand, and charge $125.00,and not have more then 3 hours in the job. i got all theses people SPONSORING cars that own a vinyl cutter.........so most get there lettering for way less then $125(but they look like stickers). if you want to do this as "practice" ok, but if you start doing it for "cheap", word of mouth will get you labled as JOE DA CHEAP SIGN GUY....and youll have more of these..." i want a good sign, cheappppp and quick"!!!!!!! where is GRAMPIAN, PA.? iam form near little washington pa.
[ April 18, 2002, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks for reply joe.. Well, what would you price if you were doing it in vinyl, instead of paint?? Also, we aren't doing it to be cheap, its just the fact couple of our customers think our price is high and they go to someone else for cheaper price... It kinda upsets me when they do that... Thats why I wasn't sure what to price on race car numbers... Our Sign Shop is meant to be Quality Signs... Not Cheap...
Well, Grampian, PA is in Clearfield County... Next to DuBois, State College, and Punxs...
Is washington by Pittsburgh???
-------------------- Jaime Doyle Doyle Sign & Web Design RR1 Box 351-C Grampian, PA Posts: 79 | From: Grampian, PA | Registered: Oct 2001
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I did my first race car for free. (for a friend of a friend) I went into it knowing I'd get nothing but experience out of it! I gave him the works; graphics, numbers, multi colors, sponsors and my name, of course! (I wanted it to look good)
Boy did I get some experience!
I learned how to make 30" letters on a 15" plotter and how much vinyl it eats up! I learned that graphics needed to be well planned, since vinyl seems to get a bit distorted going over bumps and around curves! I learned that if I'm not sure and don't want to waist vinyl, I need to make a test pattern first! I learned that if I was gonna put a 'sponsor's' name on the car, the 'sponsor' should pay for it! I learned that material cost money and I was paying for it! I learned that my time is money and I wasn't getting paid for it! I learned that if someone isn't willing to pay for my work, that I can't afford to work for FREE!
When it was all said and done, I figure my time and materials reached upwards to $1000.00. (some of that a learning curve) I've never got a referal from the job. The guy blew his engine twice during the racing season, needless to say, he didn't race much either.
The guy actually stopped by the shop today, he wants to paint his car and wonders if I have a pattern or something, ya know, to put the numbers and all on it again? I got a sick feeling in my gut and told him 'yeah, I probably have something on file' and left it at that.
The problem is, I need to tell him the REAL price! $0.00 to $600.00 in less than 10 seconds! He'll never go for it, 'cuz money's tight, ya know'. I'll make the stickies for him at my regular per foot price and he can slap em on! Take it or leave it...
I don't even want to touch another race car for less than $250.00!
Good luck in your 'experience'... Cher.
-------------------- Co-Host: SANDCASTLE Panel Jam 'a Dixie Letterhead Reunion' Fort Myers, Florida
Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" on mIRC Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc. Cape Coral, Florida 239-574-4713 VSignsNgraphics@aol.com Posts: 987 | From: Cape Coral, FL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Jaime...you didn't say what type of race car!
MOST race cars require door numbers, as well as on the roof and front & rear! Of course then there will be driver's name, crew names AND sponsor names!
Basic "do it yourself" package kits can be bought "on line" and start at $120 plus shipping, for one color kits... multiple colors go up from there!!!
These will serve as a starting point...don't forget to add you labor too! It is hard to do a decent job for less than $300!!!!
Be sure to read Cheryl's post again!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
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Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's bizarre, you figure they buy the tires months ahead of time. One of those tires cost more than they are willing to pay for the lettering. Then they wait till the night before the race to call you about the lettering.
I offered a poor man's special. $100 got them 3 numbers (top and both sides), the driver's name, and one sponsor. Then I would add the pit crew's names, additional sponsors, slogans - whatever...at $25 a pop, adding $25 to each one of those for a second color. I could have said it'll be $X00 but they felt more in control if they could "create" the package themselves and I never had any difficulty being paid. If they started whining about anything I laughingly told them I wasn't Dr Joyce brothers and asked if I should leave. They straightened right up and it was "Yes mam!" or "No, thank you Mam." for the rest of the job. Apparently that won some respect, as I frequently got tipped when I was paid.
Also, I told them I expected to be paid C.O.B. (whilst I cleaned out my brushes)
I was just talking about this last night with somebody, this was a great set up when my girls were wee little. I'd get to the repair shop friday afternoon at 5pm. I worked straight through till Sunday morning, 6am. I'd come home and toss a couple thousand dollars on the kitchen table and go to bed. Monday morning, stick it in the bank and have the whole week to spend with the girls, till my husband picked them up from the sitter on friday nite on his way home from work.
When I got through painting and was paid, I gave 10 percent of what I had made to the guy who ran the repair shop, and he made sure the shop was full the next friday. It was easy for me to do several cars at once.
One car at a time, without some one weeding out the bs routines you have to dance through with the customers can make it seem that you're walking backwards with your business. Strategically set up for profit is a good thing!
Best of Luck to you!
Print up Cheryl's post and put it under glass on your desk. Apparently she took the scenic route to undersanding on this one. Now we have a map! Cool!
Cheryl, thank you for sharing!!!!!!
[ April 18, 2002, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Linda Silver Eagle ]
posted
jamie all above posts are tellin you the truth....for me do do a car totally in vinyl $300 is fair....this is whay i still paint them, the numbers eat up so much vinyl, then with 2,3 colors on them, you wind up with more waste then you put on the car. as for these guys getting it done cheaper....yep there is always the one guy who wants all the business, even if he aint makin any money....iam to old to play this crap. let them go to him....find work that makes you money..... yes washington is near pittsburgh, been to state college, attended PENN STATE in fayette county. was an art major....DUH....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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To help you some. I do cars for the cost of 3.50 a foot by 24" My plotter is 24" Like said above #s cost 3 colors with a letter next to it is somewheres around 90 to 100 bucks just for the #. Adds they depend on how many colors/art work goes into them. I can do a half way job for about 300 to 350. Thats cash carry. I do the install its another 100. Sounds like alot to some yet down in Pitts. Theres a guy named Flinner, John. In my book he does the best around and his prices are up there. Some LateModels he does i hear are up around 1500 bucks. So you can see prices vary. I started out 5 years ago doing this and now im swamped in work so much i just came in from my shop tonight working on a 4 by 8 sign and finishing up droping my motor in my race car. Im gona push it for this weekend dont really know if i will make it. Only because i put work ahead of my racing. So dont worry if someone goes to another guy do what work you can do for what you charge. DO Good work and jobs will come.
-------------------- Steve Moynihan Bear's GraphX's Signs Water Street Frewsburg, New York 14738
posted
Jamie, there are only 2 reasons to letter a race car. One is for the fun of it, and the second is to make money.
The second is actually more fun, but thats another story.
Here's what I did. Race car people have the insane ability to get CASH from people thay know so THEY can have all the fun, pure and simple. Never think that the driver/owner is acually going to pay for anything himself. He is spending other peoples money. The more he can take from you, the more he gets to keep or spend on a racing lug nut that weighs 4 grams lighter than the one he's using now.
What you do is find out who his sponsors are. THEY are the ones with the loose cash. You letter the car for free ONLY if the other 3 to 10 sponsors make you thier new sign guy. That means he personally introduces you to them for that specific reason. Go for the ones with TRUCK FLEETS
One sponsor owned a funiture moving business, one was a plumber, etc.
I built a huge customer base very fast that way. The racers are all gone, but my customers aren't.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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Jaime, I have only had one race car job as well. I sold two sets of door, roof, and bumper numbers that were two color for $375 and they installed them.
They also call me every now and again to buy sheets of 24 1.5" numbers for the rims of the tires and I sell them for $35.00 a sheet.
$90 to install seems pretty low if that includes your installation fees. Good luck!
[ April 19, 2002, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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This is Jaimes husband The car is a small sprint car probably half the size of a late model which is why we were thinking of a lower price. Also $90 was going to be our low end (1 layer of calendered vinyl) and we will give him a few other options. The high end will be at least double. Maybee this helpes I dont know $300 or more seems to high for such a small car we dont want to scare him off especially scince this is our first race car. We are hoping this will bring us in more business dont know why but we have not been getting many race cars and racing is a pretty big deal around here. Think we need to do a little advertising.
Does anyone else have an opinion on sponsoring we were thinking about just giving a 5% or 10% discount for letting us put our name somewhere on the car is this a really bad idea?
posted
my name goes on all stock cars i do...without a discount....not as a sponsor but as the guy who did the great letterin job.....incase any other drives in the pits want to know how to get in touch with me. the people in the stands never see my name.....but the people in the pits will...if it catches their eye. as for sponsoring for addvertizing..your futher ahead to get ahold of the track and put and add in their program flyer....and since it is a sprint car and $90 is the low end price...yea not so bad....but add to that everything else they want.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanx for your reply I think the way your doing it is the way to go. Thats probably what we will do from now on. Where do you usualy put your name to make sure other drivers see it?
posted
This week I have 7 sprint cars to do. I will get anywhere fron $250-$500 each. NO SPONSORSHIP and my name will be on everyone of them. I have a guy delivering me two of them tonight. He is driving two hours to get here and his Uncle owns a Sign-A-Rama near his home. I have always been fair with my race guys and given them great service. I'm not the cheapest and I'm not the most expensive. I know the word NO and have used it. Weed out the cheap bastards. Race cars can be a lot of fun if they are the right customers. I have raced myself for nine years. I know the ins and outs of putting all your dough into the motor and not the lettering. GOOD LUCK!!!
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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Aaahhh... race car pricing, always an interesting topic. I price race car lettering as a package for the numbers (both sides, roof, front, back and drivers name) and the number is at least 2 colors, with one layer being fluorescent or holographic. 150.00 base price and higher if you want more layers, or if it's a late model because the numbers are usually larger.
Sponsors start at 35.00 each and late models add 15% because of the larger size again. Difficult logos, "EDGED" sponsors, and very particular requests are more expensive as well.
Graphics start at 100.00 and typically run 150.00 to 250.00.
These are installed prices. However, I price mail order lettering and customer installed lettering the very same. We obviously don't get rich when we install the lettering on the race cars, but anyone here involved with this post must like racing to some extent or they wouldn't touch any of these cars! That's been my problem for about 24 years now.
Steve M: I've seen a few of John Flinner's cars in pictures and he is one of the best! I have heard the same regarding his pricing in the 1500.00 range, but he does outstanding graphics, so he earns that 1500.00.
We are finally weaning ourselves of the race cars. For the last 6 to 8 years, we have done about 28 to 35 cars per spring, and this year, we have done 9 so far, with only about 6 left to do. We have been busy with the better paying work, and my ex-employee of 2 years has scooped up quite a few of my old customers as well. The cars look great, but it's pretty ironic to see the same "STYLE" of lettering in his cars.
Typically, modifieds run 500.00 to 750.00, and the late models run 700.00 and up. I've done two cars for one owner who has a ton of sponsors and we've gotten 1200.00 per car for those.
I'll take this opportunity to plug my website for those of you interested in looking at some of our work on the race cars. Check out www.gabersigns.com We don't have any of our 2002 cars posted yet, but they'll be up after the opener, so we can get some pix from the photogs.
[ April 19, 2002, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Kurt Gaber ]
-------------------- Kurt Gaber Chippewa Falls, WI Thank You Letterheads for being a part of both Brush Bashes in '02 & '06!
posted
as for a place to put your name on the car, i try to find someplace that dont get banged up!!! c-pillar is good, the space between the truck lid and back window, most that i put on is 5"x7 6x10" nothing more: LETTERED BY A SIGN MINT 944-5060 or if i feel its a nice lookin car i change it to LETTERED BY A PROFESSIONAL PAINTER A SIGN MINT 944-5060
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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