posted
FYI. I have purchased Oracal 751 vinyl for some projects recently because I like the way it cuts and weeds. It is advertised in all the sign supply catalogues as a "high performance" 2 mil, 7 year vinyl, so I naturally assumed that it was cast.
A friend of mine in the vinyl/premask industry mentioned to me that he didn't believe it was a cast vinyl as opposed to the cheaper calendered process. I doubted him, so called Oracal's 800 number and talked to a guy in their tech dept.
The result according to Oracal: Oracal 751 is NOT a cast vinyl but is a "Ultra Calendered" hybrid manufactured in Germany.
The gentleman I spoke with claims that it indeed has the same resistance to fading, failure, loss of gloss, etc as most of the cast vinyls such as 3M and Avery and is warranted for the full 7 years.
I will take him at his word but cross my fingers that I don't regret it. This vinyl is less expensive, which is nice....but mainly I like it because it cuts really nice and weeds great. I don't want to give my customers an inferior product though.
Any thoughts or comments on this?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
You tell us, you are using it. How is it on working curved surfaces? Does it have a noticalbly different(less) stretch than cast vinyl? What about the adhesive? I only bought 1 roll of Oracal in the past and didn't care for it against Arlon HP. I've used 7 year hybrid vinyls from Dealer Stocks. Some are ok to work with and I haven't gotten any backlash.
posted
been cuttin vinyl since 93, have cut most brands at least once. have never cut the 751, wont and have no intention of ever doing it. as for price GREGORY has better prices(and their vinyl is 3m), so does AMERIBAN. also oracal is a 1/2 short(on all the rolls i've bought. ive used their 651 couple times, and HATE THE STUFF, like cuttin plexi.....to plastic for me, no give, no elasticity. and ive only ever broken one blade while cuttin....guess what i was cuttin. also it uses up blades, if you cut a roll of 651, you'll need a new blade for the next roll.....of course iam the crazy one here, all i say is only from what ive experianced.....dont listen to salesmen pitches......they are ther to sell you their product!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks for your input gents. The adhesion seems really good. They claim it conforms around rivets...but that is not true. Santo, you make a good point here....it doesn't appear to have the same "stretch-a-bility" that cast film has. But for a straight app it seems like pretty decent stuff.
If anyone else has used it, I would like their feedback as well. Thanks again.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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we use it for quick temporary stuff. We use it for stock car lettering. Anything that is short term in nature gets oracal.
I like the way it cuts, too. I haven't noticed any premature wearing on the blades when we cut a big batch of it. It weeds like a dream.
I would never use it on trucks, tho. It shrinks really bad and the ugly adhesive residue is unsightly.
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
In Europe many shops use calendered films for most things. I used to be like this, until Avery released maany more colors on there cheaper "cast" 800PF film here.
Competitors said it wasn't a real cast! I don't know though, I thought the physical manufacturing differences were along the lines that cast was poured while calendered was rolled out, with a tendency for shrinkage, hence problems around severe contours and rivets.
An Avery rep said it was OK on vehicle folds that weren't deeper than 5mm, but I've found that not to be the case. In fact on vehicles I have had more failures with Avery cast 800PF than their 5-7 calendered 700series. They have just launched their supercast replacement for their top 900series with a 12 year life, and improved 800 (is that A8 in the US?). But as these films get thinner and "better" they get more translucent, so if you use layers and put a red on a black for example the red goes a brownish colour.
My Summa dealer has been trying to get me to change to Oracal both 651 and 751, I have been impressed with what I have seen. Most people lease vehicles here and keep them 3-5 years so it seems abit over the top to use 12 year films, unless of course you work with rivets everyday...here we use composite body panels on most trucks eliminating the nightmare with the rivet!
Cálendered films have come along way in the last years and may be worth checking out some more. Must have posted at the same time as Bruce....our rep says 751 will not shrink like calendered used too. I have some old 751 in the shop, and see no shrinkage on the roll at all.....whereas Aslan (another german translucent vinyl) has shrunk 2-3mm!
We all have our preferences....as I mentioned in the begining calendered is very popularover here, MacTac 9800 has been around performing well for years....Cast seems to be the preference in the US
[ April 15, 2002, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Henry Barker ]
posted
I have also been using Oracal 751 for the past year and I too love the weeding and cutting. I did use it on a truck and when I saw it after 2 months it was lifting in the grooves. I don't know why because as you guys already know that the adhesive is really aggressive to the point of trying to peel it off your fingernails. The backing paper is really handy also as the little sguares on the back are exactly 10mm. apart which is good for doing scale drawings on.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I used Oracal 751 for a while. But, I had a serious problem with shrinkage (thats vinyl shrinkage, thank you Jerry Seinfeld).
I've seen black 6" tall letters draw up nearly 1/4" in a year's time. The letters were still flat to the surface, but the dirt-filled adhesive outline just wasn't very attractive.
posted
Todd, A millimetre is 1/10 of a centimetre which is the same size as one of those squares on the backing paper. 100 centimetres is a metre which is the european measurements which Australia uses. When you get used to it is much better to use than imperial, because all measurements are in tens which is easy to use in your head rather than use a calculator. Have fun
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
well bruce e......when i cut the 651 i had to increase downforce pressure, was cutting with a 45 degree blade, it had cut avery ealier that day with out any pickin of the vinyl or skipin on th vinyl. only thing changed was i put a roll of 651 in there to be cut.....also this was not the 1st time ive had problems with cuttin oracal. so if you like it buy it... i wont. a for price for calendered vinyl...AMERIBAN is cheapper then oracal, cuts and weeds better and dont shrink as bad...except their red....dont buy it...fades almost as quick as floresents
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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