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Hi guys, I am going to be looking to buy a new design program soon. I now use ANAGRAPH DESIGN ART PRO 3.5. I have also been waiting 4 years for my free upgrade which never and will probably never come. The program stinks anyway (Even though I really have nothing to copmpare it to.) So I was wondering what everyone else is using and how you like or dont like your program. Right now I only do vinyl cutting but hope someday to be able to afford a nice printer............ Thanks Rich, N.Y.
-------------------- Rich Parthemore Buchanan NY rparth139@aol.com Posts: 107 | From: Buchanan, NY USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Rich......I, as well as quite a few others here, use CorelDraw! You can find older versions on eBay for very little money (got my version 7 for $25, plus all 3 manuals for $4.50). I also use Adobe Illustrator 8.0, but Corel is my main program. It's worth getting, even if only for the wide range of formats that you can import and export with it.
[ April 13, 2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Mike Kelly ]
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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In order to prevent software piracy, some software comes with a device that plugs into either your parallel or USB port. This prevents those with "copied" software from being used; and, OEM software from being installed on more than one computer without a site license.
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I have used SignLab since 1995. I find it to easier to use for making signs than Corel. I also have CorelDraw9. Corel is very useful in changing file formats and I love the copy and paste feature. I can copy in Corel and paste into SignLab or use the tool I just found in Corel to put an object directly into SignLab. So far the only thing I don't like about SignLab is the fact that it still requires quite a bit of clean up on a scanned(traced)object. But from what I have seen and heard about other sign programs, they all lack in this department. I have also tried the VinylMasterPro demo. I find it to be much easier to use than Corel. Also it is has a more attractive price ($499) than SignLab ($2995 for Expert..higher for ColorMaster 5.0). Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck! Judy
-------------------- Judy Pate Signs By Judy Albany, Georgia USA 229-435-6824
Live simply...Love generously...Care deeply...Speak kindly...Leave the rest to God. Posts: 2621 | From: Albany,GA,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I bought CorelDraw 9, the full retail box and not an upgrade for $199 over a year ago. I use it all of the time. A year befor, I bought CorelDraw 8 without manuals for $40.I thiink I got CorelDraw 9 from a place called Dealdealdeal.com As far as Vinyl Master Pro, I would probably go with it, we got our trial copy last week and we are buying it Monday. It works like all of the high dollar sign programs and has bookoos of fonts and clip-art included and a font detective (worth at least $150 by itself). It is worth way more than it costs. We are currently using Vinyl Express Master and as soon as Vinyl Master Pro gets here we will probably use it exclusively NO MORE DONGLES. If you need Vinyl Master Pro or a demo go to www.ssky.com and they will hook you up, just don't buy CiberCut Max from them for a $100 cheaper than VMP you will be sorry unless you want a sign program that works like it is from the stone age.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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Vinyl Master Pro... You may call me i f you like..I will give you some pointers. I have used the program for over a year now. I highly recommend it
Dongles stop piracy but don't stop the raping and pilaging you get from the software manufacturers. You can get a legal software bypass for as little as $300 and put your dongle in a drawer where it belongs.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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been cuttin vinyl since 93, have a roland plotter, cut direct from corle been doing it since version 3, use 7 now(5 and 6 do not cut).....as for vinyl cutting programs, desending order, 1st here is best: signlab, vmpro, sign wizard, flexi, inspire, casmate, any gerber...sign mate, vinyl express then the simple bridge programs....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm going to disagree with Todd on a couple points.
1) There is no "legal" software bypasses. In spite of what these "anti-dongle" websites say, when you purchase a program that uses a dongle, I suggest reading the contract that comes with it. Guess which one holds up in court. The only thing these anti-dongle sites do is rationalize stealing and call it a "right." A "right" that doesn't exist. That is why companies are heading away from hardware security devices and going the way of software codes that are tied to a specific computer when installed.
2) There is not one single software company the rapes and pillages anybody because of the price they charge. And, yes, that goes for Microsoft (I'm not talking about their business practices with there competitors). It cost time and money to create the program just like it cost us time and money to letter with a brush. The market deterimines a product's value - not the company. The only thing the company can do is to increase its credibility, thereby increase its value.
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There are LEGAL remedies for certain legally owned but abandoned or unsupported or absolete programs locked with a dongle or other locking techniques..
The DMCA (library of congress) has a provision for the above problem due to certain problems or abuses that were not addressed by software authors.
Why should they address them when its more profitable to simply not support a perfectly good $2,000 program and make someone pay another $2,000 to upgrade when all they really needed was a dongle replacement.
That is what i beleive is/was the "rape" and "rippoff" issue. And if it were not a valid point,, why was the amendment added on to the DMCA?
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Do you ever drive over the speed limit? Ever pick up a quarter off the sidewalk and stick it in your pocket, or do you turn it in at the local police station? (all humor intended here)
Hey, when a software company wants $300-$600 to replace a damaged dongle...and up to $2,000 for an additional one when they give you a bug laden unsupported software, that's raping and piliging in my book.
I pull the tags off my pillowcases too.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Todd, are you nuts? This is a public board and I wouldn't go around bragging about pulling the tags of pillows. I suppose it would be ethical to bypass the dongle of the software you already own, and I would love to do that for my own security and protection. The software companies are worried, justly so, that eventually many would sell off their cracked software which would devalue the product for both sides.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Wow... this post took an interesting twist, huh? Rich... back on track a little before this really goes south and someone asks for the "little pee guy" again, I like the Corel Draw/ VMP combo too. I find that VMP can do just about anything you can imagine when it comes to designing something that you can turn into cash. One or two good designs will pay for this program. It works well with Corel Draw... export a file from VMP into Corel, print it or cut it. You are only limited by your own imagination and creativity.
Also, VMP is coming out with a (free upgrade) RIP program to run with Roland or Gerber or whatever. At this point it is a little heavy on the techno-geek side and I prefer to print out of Corel Draw on my PC-60 but I am sure that when they have it figured out it will work great. Once that is up and running, I can't imagine how they will be able to continue to sell it so cheap. The only thing that I do not like is the way all of the fonts are named. Times is "Timms"... is this a copyright thing?
Good luck, and now... back to the slug fest.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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One more thought on this "dongle" deal... I used to use Letter Art which did have a dongle. I have used G.A. which also required a dongle. Any of these could be used on any machine.
With VMP there is no dongle, I think that you CAN get one if you want. Anyway, when you register your VMP program, it is specific to the machine on which it is registered. If you change computers, you have to contact the company and re-register. No fee for that but one way to prevent it from being ripped off. You can use the software on any machine but only cut from the registered machine. You can also buy additional licenses for other stations but you really don't need to. You can design a file, put it on disk or if on a network send it over to the registered system then print or cut from there. If bitmaps are created you may need to include those with your file.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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Its just that we had this discussion about anti-dongle stuff a while back when someone started posting links to such sites and bragged about being able to put their software on different machines.
It was tantamount to us creating a design and someone stealing it. Its kind of a touchy subject.
The D.M.A. (Digital Millenium Act) did enact certain instances when software may be "cracked" or security impliments bypassed. It didn't give anyone the "right" to bypass it on any software that the hacker deems fit. The guidlines are quite specific in their intent and application.
From where I sit, the only mainstream signmaking software that fits this profile is CAS-Mate from Scanvec. Flexi-Sign (any version) is still being offered tech support (and I use that term loosely when it comes to their tech support) and is offered for sale on the open market. Inspire is still offered in Europe the last time I looked.
I doubt that Gerber will ever stop offering tech support on any of their software offerings to keep within the guidlines set up under the D.M.A. I would venture to say that most other software manufacturers/developers would do the same.
I will concur that the thought of having to shell out another wad of hard earned dollars because my dongle failed would not excite me. Fortunately, i have not ever experienced this like some other people have and I, for that, consider myself to be lucky in that regard.
I like the idea of the software key, like Vinyl Master engages, to be a superior idea than a hardware dongle or hasp.
I better go before the mattress police come after me. Quick, hand me a stapler will ya....
Have a great one!
[ April 14, 2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Bowers ]
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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back to the original topic: A CorelDraw user since '92 ver.2, my opinion one of the most versitle programs out there. Use Corel7 to cut vinyl, Corel9 for designing. Lots of fonts (truetype and Type1) lots of clipart (not much cuttable unless you mess with it)
Also use Illustrator9, XaraX, Freehand... All excellent programs.
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1736 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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Corel 8 and 9, and Signlab Colormaster here.
Corel pros: -well priced for what you get -easy to work with (once you are fluent with it)
Corel cons: -creates too many nodes on curved objects -fonts not the greatest quality when outputting large scale -takes ALOT of computer umph to run it smoothly with the newer versions -doesn't have a 'real' cutting program combined
Signlab pros: -excellent cutting features with no limitations -nice to have a program where you can draw AND cut without fiddle f*rting around in between
Signlab cons: -Can't open more than one file at a time. Come on lab! Get with it here, this feature is avail with the cheapest of programs!!! -Abit clunky to draw with; I often feel like I'm wearing gloves when drawing in lab. -Price. Ouch.
Overall, I love these two programs working together with each other. One does something better than the other, and I love having a preference that works for me.
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Corel 9 & Signlab5, been using Corel since V4 and Signlab since V4.95 similar pros and cons as previously discussed except the Signlab dongle is on a printer port and will not allow 2 way comms. with the printer, so i only know when the printer is low on ink when it actually stops printing. I also have an ALPS printer and this wont work at all with the dongle in place, so I have to keep unplugging it and print everything with it fron Corel. On the whole Signlab is a good piece of kit and i find it simple to use, looked at V6 but found the upgrade not really worth the money, it doesn't offer anything that i can't do elsewhere.
-------------------- Steve Broughton Alpha Grafix Signs Lowfields Road Benington, Boston Lincolnshire, England Posts: 315 | From: Boston, Lincolnshire, England | Registered: Aug 2001
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Hey Stephen, Maybe try adding another printer port. We had some issues with our Gerber dongle/printers and ended up putting in another port just for the dongle.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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That's a good solution. I'd be curious if the software manufacturer feels like they owe you the cost of your additional printer port because their dongle screwed you over? I doubt it.
Did I say I was pulling the tags off my pillowcases? Hmmm, someone MUST be using my name around here. The nerve of some people these days. Ummm, hey does anyone know what time Wal Mart opens?!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oh, by the way....the dongle issue aside...I have used Scanvec/CasMate and hated them both. I now use Signlab...it's ok, but here again like Omega, I HATE the drawing functions of the pencil tool.
I use Omega at a buddies place who owns an Edge, for my Edge output and I like a lot about it (except for the drawing functions and lack of layers and the trim functions).
If CorelDraw had a function that rounded pointed corners to your specification automaically....I would use it instead of any sign program. But Signlab, Omega (and probably others) do a very nice job of rounding or "filleting" corners without affecting the adjoining lines, which makes weeding your vinyl tons easier and elminates those pesky sharp corners from popping up after the install.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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OK, I'm gonna sound like an idiot here but...
I know you all kinda explained what a dongle is (I had no idea). But, do they only come on sign related software? Thanks!
-------------------- John Cordova Gitano Design Studio Albuquerque, NM Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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As for other software that uses dongles I know 3D Studio Max 2.5 does plus Auto cad did also.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
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There are some inventory control programs, especially ones that implement bar code technology, that use dongles. Also, Activity P.O.S. which is an estimation / price quoting / job tracking / workflow management software uses them.
Personally, I prefer the term "security key". It sounds less, I dunno ....... Dirty.
-------------------- Jon Androsky Posts: 438 | From: Williamsport, PA | Registered: Mar 2002
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hey todd...go to corel, find the little pen lookin thing...open it up...gives you corner choices.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Help me out....what's a pen thingy? The Outline tool? Cause if it's the outline tool, the corner choices are only good for how an outline is formed on a line segment.
I'm talking more about say, taking a triangle and saying I want each corner to have a .125" radius, thereby elminating the sharp points and replacing it with a slight radius.
Give me some more info on what you're talking about. Thanks OP.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Ummm, hey does anyone know what time Wal Mart opens?! 
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