posted
Maybe someone would like to throw a comment in here.
Let me back up and say that a while ago I was disappointed in our city sign code or lack of one. The problem was that it was so vague that it left most sign situations up to the interpretation of the planning commission. All signs over 32 Sq. Ft. and 10 feet or more off of the groung HAD TO go before the planning commission.
So... I became the squeaky wheel and petitioned the city council to allow our disbanded sign ordinance committee to re-organize. At the same time, our current city administration was up for grabs with a new election. Long story short, the sign ordinance committee (with me on it) is back together and making some progress. The mayoral race was won by MY candidate. Things are looking up for the business community here.
Here's what I need:
1. A definition for "BILLBOARD". In trying to streamline the code and eliminate extra words and pages, our chairman took it upon himself to define billboard as "A wall of planks". He said that this comes from the dictionary. I think we can do better. (I actually laughed at him) What do you have to say?
2. A definition for "MONUMENT SIGN". In researching this I have come across many different definitions from the USSC to SBA to many codes all across the country. I think that what we are really looking for here is something along the lines of a "Low Profile" sign. Also, I am reading in several codes that in an attempt to promote more "monument" or "low profile" signs in exchange for some versions of pole and/or pylon types, some municipalities are offering to increase the allowable amount of total signs for a business location. Are YOU in one of these areas? Is this something that is attractive to the business community where you are? Is it working and do these businesses feel that they have the same amount of exposure?
Thanks for your advice.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
I admire you for taking such a positive action and trying to streamline government in your area. It is that take charge kind of thing that is severely lacking in many communities.
I would define a billboard as any type of panel type sign that is used for off premises advertising (other than directional signs) or product advertising that is changed on a rotating basis. This includes poster type boards, bag type boards, and hand painted boards. Billboards can be either wall mounted or have a stand alone support structure.
Hey... just my 2.9 cents worth...
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with Bruce on BOTH points made. About"our involvement" and (changed on regular basis)! Remember signs that said: POST NO BILLS? originally, hand written paper announcements were nail on the wooden walls of a bulding so everyone would read the message.
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ha! Thanks , Bob... sorry to say that you are so right! Bruce and Pat, thanks for your responses!
I would like to hear what others have to say about this and what others have experienced and how they dealt with it.
Not to change my own thread here, but it is unbelievable how much a person can learn about your own community by attending a few of these meetings (planning commission, City Council, etc.)
I urge anyone in any community (especially if you a running a business) to check this out. Even the ones that are well versed in the local code are finding that they were not as informed as they thought they had been. Interpreting something a certain way can mean BIG CHANGES FOR YOU AND YOUR BUSINESS. These people can make changes for you based on misconceptions and poor recommendations by someone like city "staff" or city planner.
YOU REALLY CAN make a difference in your business community. What are you waiting for? Don't feel like you are insigificant and what you do does not matter! All you have to do is go to one of these meetings, sit in the back and just TRY to stay quiet. You will learn a few things, I promise.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Jeffrey, In my area, the county has a new sign code that promotes monument style signs. Every couple of years they change the code and lower the max allowable height. Now the signs are coming down and it looks alot better than 25' pole signs. All signs must have a pole cover, 20-100% of the width. 7-11 just lowered their pole sign to 8-10' tall with a 100% pole cover from the bottom of the sign to grade. I looked at the sign code book and do definition exist for a monument style sign.
True monument signs are headstones or tombstones. My dad, grandfather and my greatgrand father were all monument designers/carvers.
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I bumped this up. Have a meeting on this on Monday... just wondering if anyone else had an opinion or experience with this.
Thanks!
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
(my college degree is in architecture, and planning was part of our coursework).
i don't think there is much reason to define a "billboard". definitions get tricky. if you define it as "a big flat sign that is is more than 32 square feet" then i could litter your highway with 31.95 sq.ft signs that aren't "billboards". if you define "monument" as a ground hugging sign, i could elevate my sign by one or two inches and it wouldn't be a monument any more. a slippery slope.
instead, maybe your committee can focus on the goals of their sign codes. do you want to limit signs, limit just the tall signs that block the view, limit big signs that block the view, or keep people from having so many signs on one business that it looks like a circus? are you trying to promote a certain look ("historic district") or merely eliminate "clutter"?
if you want to prohibit (or encourage) a certain TYPE of sign, then you need to define its characteristics. is it free standing, permanent, temporary, illuminated, high, low, attached to a building, offered for sale/lease, directional, or movable?
when i think of a "billboard" i think of space used as advertising for a business that isn't adjacent. that has more to do with the FUNCTION rather than the construction of the billboard.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Our local sign ordinances don't address billboards or monument signs. Directional signs are addressed separately. They refer to OFF-SITE signs and ON-SITE signs. Here there is a moratorium on all OFF-SITE signs. When Lamar Advertising came in and started erecting monster monopole billboards the moratorium was put into place by local city/county officials in an effort to stop more from being erected. Our city started out on the right foot in creating a sign ordinance back in '86 by including large and small sign companies on the sign ordinance panel. I was on this panel but all of a sudden they dropped the whole thing. On their second attempt at creating a sign ordinance they didn't consult the sign companies or any businesses the ordinance will affect. They drafted a strict sign ordinance in '92. We found out that you can't fight city hall. Guess I’ll never learn. Now I am on my county's Economic Development Board. At least my opinion will be heard. Judy
-------------------- Judy Pate Signs By Judy Albany, Georgia USA 229-435-6824
Live simply...Love generously...Care deeply...Speak kindly...Leave the rest to God. Posts: 2621 | From: Albany,GA,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
Judy, our ordinance committee started out similar to yours. It was organized AFTER a billboard company came into town and erected two billboards in an area of town that some felt was inappropriate. (A completely industrial type area invisible to any nearby residential area) Anyway, the group was magically disbanded after 3 months of meetings that allowed the group to do nothing but head in the wrong direction on sign codes. Everything at that time was (about to be) determined by emotion, the heat of the moment, and any other number of boneheaded ideas.
After the group was killed the city came up with an ordinance that was somewhat simple, and in the right hands could have been all that was needed. The problem was that everything went to the planning commission and those people interpreted EVERY situation in a different manner. There was NO guideline or common ground, nothing for these people to help guide them in their decision making.
I spent two years trying to get this group back together. The city could not find the time as there was the normal everyday amount of work that seemed to overwhelm them to the point that nothing could get done. The City Administrator wanted to be the one to head up this group and dictate how this code would be written. I was determined to get the group back in place with or without the C.A.... the group could design the code and then present it to the city at the appropriate time. In the mean time, an election was coming up. Winning the election (our business candidate) would mean new appointments and a new planning commission. Well, we won by a 3 to 1 vote. The Mayor-elect called me yesterday to ask if I was interested in being placed on our Economic Development Committee.
I think you can fight city hall, if you have the guts for it. I can't stand the way some of our local politicians have dealt with issues and people... so I got involved.
Now all I have to do is stay involved and see this thing through.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic