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I have a guy who wants me to make him some flames for a car that is being painted. He wants either me or the guy painting the car to apply the vinyl after the base coat is sprayed and then put the clearcoat over top of the vinyl. I used to have friends who painted and if I remember correctly, you have to put the clearcoat on a base coat clear coat very quickly after the base coat is sprayed. I know that you are supposed to let paint cure for a while before applying vinyl. I have applied vinyl to base coat clear coat that was a day or two old but all of the cars I did like that had been baked in a baking booth and they were race cars, not street or show cars, giving a little more margin for error. The guy wants me to cut out the flames because the guy who he wants to paint the car can't do flames and he won't use a paint mask cut into them either. Should I attempt such a job, it is really scary thinking about having something like that go wrong. Also, the job goes around so many curves that it would have to be wet applied (at least I would have to wet apply it). Would the residule moisture affect the clearcoat? I do know a guy who could paint the flames, should I refer the guy to him?
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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My suggestion is that you do your flames like a negative stencil. Let the guy spray them (the stencils). Remove vinyl then he can clear it. My 2 cents...
-------------------- AirbrushBobby.com Clearwater, FL The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.1Cor1:18 “The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord”Rom6:23 Posts: 505 | From: Clearwater Florida USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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This sounds like a big headache or worse a lawsuit waiting to happen. Tell the owner of the car to find a painter who can do flames. It's got to be worth the price compared to the heartache of what might happen with the proposed method. Better yet, tell the guy to drive up to Hope, NJ and let Alan Johnson work the car over. If he can't make it to Jersey, call me and I'll help you find someone in GA. 937-849-4347
Lee
-------------------- Lee V. Hulick AKA Vance 139 Weinland St. New Carlisle, OH 45344 Posts: 101 | From: New Carlisle, OH | Registered: Sep 1999
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I think Lee has made a better recommendation. One screw up can turn into a big monkey.
-------------------- AirbrushBobby.com Clearwater, FL The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.1Cor1:18 “The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord”Rom6:23 Posts: 505 | From: Clearwater Florida USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I have flames on my 95 Z28. I wouldn't even consider having vinyl graphic flames clearcoated over. If your customer wants his car done that way he should also be aware of all the laughs he will receive from those at the car show. There are hundreds of good painters that can paint flames like you read about. He should really consider having them painted. Mine cost me 1300 here in Michigan. Well worth the money.
-------------------- Skip Willis Fastwires Graphics Custom Automotive Circuits Three Oaks MI Posts: 64 | From: Three Oaks MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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i have cut vinyl for a friend that wanted to make some signs and he applied it to the base coat and cleared it and it really looks good
-------------------- Jimmy Chatham Chatham Signs 468 stark st Commerce, Ga 30529 Posts: 1766 | From: Commerce, GA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Damn, my 14 year old was laying out flames in fineline tape after looking at the pictures Frazer's Cheap Trix....I know he did even read anything, just looked at the pictures.
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I agree with jimmy on this one. Did custom decals for a Harley gas tank. The painting shop applied the decals before clearcoating and worked out great. Can't even feel the edges of the decals. Mind you, this was about 7 x 7 inches.
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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I think that the only way I would do it is to give the painter the vinyl and let him apply it letting them know that I am not responsible for any screw ups. A second option, there is a guy near me that specializes in flame jobs and does really good work. I have met him and discussed the vinyl and painting businesses and I am really considering just referring the guy to him. Who knows, he may do the same if he comes up on something he can't do with paint. I hate to turn away work but I really don't think I want to be the on who applies the vinyl just in case there is a boo-boo. I use Avery A-8 and A-9 but it would be my luck that it would lift up, bubble, wrinkle or something caused by a reaction or something. I have a really good customer that paints go-karts, I think I will try something out like this on one of them before I do a car.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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I'd really suggest that the guy either get the flames painted on, or apply the vinyl after the car has been cleared, if it's getting new paint.
Forget putting the vinyl under the clear.
Yes, you can do it, but you can't polish a turd.. I make a living at vinyl autographics but there are just lines ya dont try to cross. One of them is burrying vinyl under clear. It just doesnt look the same as flames that are actually painted on, not to mention the possibility of a failure after which, what the heck they gonna do now? Sand through the clear to remove the vinyl?? What a joke.
I think this guy just needs to find a real auto painter that doesnt have some hang-up about using a computer cut mask, or has the talent to do more than just monotone or duotone factory finish repairs.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Good Grief! I can't believe we are even having this conversation. Vinyl flames on a vehicle? There is no comparison between this and a little decal on a motorcycle. The amount of contours, the distortion, and the likely unnatural spacing and direction of the flames should be enough warn you not to proceed. Send this job to an expert and demand that you be able to watch so that you can do them yourself next time.
Bruce Deveau
-------------------- Bruce Deveau 331 Main St. Amesbury, Ma USA 01913 Posts: 139 | From: Amesbury, MA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Hmmm, funny i did two pt cruisers this week with flames ..... airbrushed vinyl flames... both dealers were real happy with them,,, liked them better than the factory installed ones.... clearing over them is a different story......
.....Joey, if they ever make a remake of the movie king ralph, and john goodman, doesnt want the part, you'd be perfect!
oh yeah, and thanks rodger for making a great product.... rapid tac, really helped getting it on!
[ April 12, 2002, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Del Badry ]
-------------------- Del Badry philmdesign Sylvan Lake, Alberta Posts: 636 | From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta | Registered: Nov 1998
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well...all i gota say is this....there are stick on flames, and there are painted on flames....but its real dumb to stick on flames then clear coat em. sorta like passin off a paint by number as a real "piece of art". sticker flames are ok....for quick, look at me i got flames....look. but if your paintin the car anyway why even consider vinyl and clearcoat.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I talked to the guy again and told him about my worries and he discussed it with the painter. The painter will put the vinyl on and clearcoat over it and accept responsibility for the job. He said he has done similiar jobs before. I will just make out a disclaimer accepting no responsibility for any failures and let this be a trial and error thing I guess. Doing flames isn't a problem, I do some pretty good looking flames with vinyl, on my car for instance I have Avery Cyan/Purple Shade Shifter flames outlined in a really thin metallic silver pinstripe with Avery True Shadow ghost flames behind the whole thing. I have airbrushed on vinyl flames before also, just leary of being the one responsible for a new paint job going bad. I ain't no auto body man.
-------------------- John Thompson JTT Graphics "The big guy with a little sign shop!" Royston/Hartwell Georgia jtt101@hotmail.com Posts: 626 | From: Royston Georgia | Registered: Feb 2002
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AMEN BRUCE,Flames am flames and vynal is for
-------------------- Alan Johnson Alan Johnson Grafix Blairstown, NJ 07825 [URL=http://www.alanjohnsongrafix.com] Posts: 261 | From: Blairstown, NJ | Registered: Dec 2001
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