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I have to apply letters and graphics on a racing trailer. The customer wants vinyl, but there is airbrushing involved. I was planning on either using enamel receptive clear or applying frog juice to the vinyl and using One Shot. Then I had visions of the paint flaking off the vinyl while heating the vinyl over the rivets. When doing the rivet thing (plenty of them too) is the paint going to stay on the vinyl?
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dave- check the trailer. If the rivets are an eight point star screw then a #2 square drive bit will take them out. I remove all but the top and bottom row of rivets (screws) when doing trailers. I then put them back into the same holes and it looks great. Hope this helps.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Rob Larkham Signs & Lettering 21 Middlefield Road Chester, MA. 01011
413-354-0287 Posts: 517 | From: Chester, MA | Registered: May 2001
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Rob, Is there a trick to using the square bit to take those 8 point buggers out? I did a trailer last year that had them and stripped about 5 of those bits trying to remove them. I even called the manufacturer of the trailer to obtain a fwe bits from them with no luck. I hate those screws!
-------------------- David Thompson Pro-Line Graphics Martinsville, NJ
I'm not this dumb, it's just the paint fumes talkin' Posts: 397 | From: Martinsville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2001
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As for those 8 point screws, I deal with those alot on trailers. Make sure the square bit fits snug and push in hard while backing them off.
I also use that bit inserted in a small rachet and socket to break the screws loose first. Then you can spin them out easily with a drill.
I roughly mark the area for the graphics and remove the screws in that area. Do the job then go back with some paint and touch up to help conceal them.
I haven't put painted vinyl over rivets before, so I don't know about that.
I would use paint mask and paint and airbrush the required lettering/graphics. Explain to your customer that they will be much happier with the results that way, it will last longer, and thus you have to charge more. It is also easier to paint over rivets then apply vinyl. I still have yet to see airbrushed vinyl that even comes close to painted and airbrushed effects. JMO
MC
-------------------- Mike Clayton M C Grafix Custom Lettering New Jersey (again) Posts: 508 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dave, do a test with the paints you plan on using.. paint some vinyl, let it dry, then stretch the vinyl over a fingertip to mimmick how it will be applied.. that will show you how much stretch you have before the paint lets loose.
By far the only way to guarantee you wont have a failure is to use a product that's made specifically for the purpose: vinyl screenprinting inks. Not only will it not fail, the inks are heat formable just as the vinyl is.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Good advise Stephen, I have cut holes to acomadate rivits, then go back and "brush touch".
Much easier and quicker then fighting rivits or removing them.
Oh yeah, if you decide to cut holes, the easiest way is with a sharpened metal tube(conduit or brass tubing??) but make the hole 10 or20% larger then the rivit.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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Rob, Are you sure that these 8 pointed fasteners arent known as TORX screws, which they make a tool for and its used widely in the automotive industry? i know some trailer manufacturers use them now, and you might find it tru that if you crack them loose with a ratchet then spin them out with a screw gun that you should not strip any of the heads on them. I work with screws and bolts of this type daily and I am pretty sure thats what you mean. They come in many different sizes, all resemble a star pattern. They make them from about a Torx-10 all the way up to a Torx-60 in increments of 5, and I bet they have larger ones used on heavy equipment. Any local tool or hardware store sells the bits or sockets for them. They are the future, GM was one of the first to use them and now virtually every car manufacturer is using them.
Hope that helped demistify it some for you.
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Dave apply your viynl the same way you always do.Put it where you want it push it down, now before you take off the application tape poke small holes around the rivets [I just roll over the rivets with a pounce wheel] heat the viynl with a small propane torch or cigarette lighter in a pinch, as your heating with one hand go over the rivets with a rivet brush do it together heat then brush real fast and hard.Spray your app tape with water or fluid to loosen the tape. I do full trailer wraps this way it doesn't scracth the viynl this way. I can't even imagine taking the rivets out of a big trailer And I think the customer would complain about all the white dots in their graphics.
-------------------- Scott Moyer Canadensis, Pennsylvania 570-595-0310 Posts: 111 | From: Canadensis PA. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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when you appy vinyl over rivets wet or dry you dont need to cook the hell out of the vinyl with a heat gun.......just get it warm to sofen the vinyl and then work it with a rivet brush, some might need a hole or two or three poked in with a x-acto or pin to let traped air out. if your doing wet transfer poke your holes and let them drain and dry well (sometimes over night) and then add a bit of heat and rivet brush. as long as you dont over heat your vinyl your paint on it will do just fine. I personaly would not try to cut around the rivets and them paint them, to me that would make it look too choped up and spotty and hurt to look of your fin. product. I have used a propane torch or small gas flame for sofing and removeing very large vinyl jobs but only if the fin. surface is a tuff one and can handle it....its kind of tricky to heat it to the right temp and then remove it before it cools to much and not burn your self or the surface in the process. And i would never use a flame when applying new vinyl...it heats up just to fast and once its burnt...ITS BURNT!.....and i hate having to do something twice!......so all in all I recomend the heat gun with a light touch and a rivet brush is your best bet. Ive done alot of if with reg. vinyl, dig. printed and top coated vinyl and paint over vinyl projects.
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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