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I applied some intermediate vinyl to a banner 3 days ago. I cleaned the banner with alcohol first. After applying the vinyl and removing the transfer tape, I used a hairdryer and a squeegee and re-squeegeed the vinyl. I rolled it loosely- vinyl side out. This morning, I unrolled it while the customer was standing there and discovered some of the vinyl was coming off. SO I reheated/squeegeed it. The customer is using it tonight for a 4 hour function. Then will reuse it as a homeshow banner. Does anyone have any idea what happened?\I told her if she has any problems, I will replace the vinyl with another brand. Thanks in advance.
Diane Balch
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1701 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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Hey Diane, I remember hearing about this somewhere. Something about plasticizers in the banner material migrating into the adhesive under the vinyl or something to that effect. I would check with the banner manufacturer or supplier to find out if this banner is really vinyl receptive. That shouldn't be happening.
Maybe you could try switching to hp vinyl.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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The problem is definately plasticizer migration which is nothing more than solvent on the surface. This keeps the adhesive from adhering to the surface. Alcohol is not a strong enough solvent to remove the plasicizers. A PC reducer and surface prep is preferrable or as strong as lacquer thinner. The issue is of course that the migration will occur again and MAY lift vinyl later. To be absolutely sure, the surface should be cleaned and then sealed with a clear acrylic such as Ti-cote to stop the migration just like the need for sealing before painting. Some runs of vinyl banner material have more plasticizer in them than others and it is often difficult to tell. It is possible for there to be no evidence on the surface when the banner is lettered and a few weeks later, the lettering falls off the surface because the migration started. This often occurs when the banner is hung in the sunshine. I would rather save the aggrivation and expense and seal all vinyl banners or use a different material such as Polly.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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Cal Plus Intermediate never worked on banners. Oracal is the only Intermediate that has ever worked on banners for me. But that is just my opinion.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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Hi there We did a banner at the beginning of the year (sericast, an Aussie cast vinyl) and it was returned, peeling. Redid it being paranoid about preparation. Peeled almost immediately. Did it it with a banner specific vinyl (oracol) and end of problem. According to a rep (different supplier) the banner specific vinyls have adhesives receptive to the plasticisers. He also said that one of the calendered vinyls was pretty good (Avery, I think) Kerry
-------------------- Kerry Wright Gladstone Australia Posts: 119 | From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia | Registered: May 1999
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Avery here in Europe make a banner vinyl 1200 series that is OK for temporary use, and advising the customer to roll the banner text outward. A more permanent and trouble free solution would be to mask and roll it with screen ink, or use Avery's Signflex which is a special softside vinyl that feels like it has no adhesive on the back until it comes into contact with banner or softside and then it STICKS permanently. No "normal" vinyls work "permanently" on banners, we have banners that are coated here for normal vinyl but in time they look like wrinkled crap too!
Rapid Tac has used banners (trade show displays,building displays,testing),for years.
We have had Ameriban supply us with every type banner material they handle(they wanted to know compatibility)as did we, these banners still (after years) look great.
They (some) have been inside,outside,rolled up,and folded.
The only thing constant is that we applied the different vinyls on them with Rapid Tac!!
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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I am not trying to be mean here.....but I was told to always apply vinyl DRY on banners.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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But I think you should see for yourself, like the old saying "take a chance, Colombus did" He he he he he he.
Really, a lot of people have been told these things by people who have yet to understand or witness the difference. If I had never tried a H.V.L.P.spray gun(cause someone told me they were a waste of money) I would never have known the wonderfull difference. The money for the H.V.L.P. was a small price to pay for the many benifits!
Just a thought from your friendly Rapid Tac man!!
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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