posted
I am was wondering about the concept of applying screenink to vinyl. I would sometimes roll a sheet of whitefaced aluminium with screen ink. Just pour the ink onto the sheet flat and then use the roller to move it all over in an even layer.
My question is what kind of roller do you use for this as the short nape ones that we have available here are affected by the ink and begin to shed into the ink ( not a nice finish). Are there roller available in the states that aren’t affected by screeninks and that are cheap enough to throw away after one use. We throw them away each time and just a new one (cuts down on the amount of hair in the ink).
I would be interested in buying in bulk if someone knows of a roller that would do the job and have contact numbers for a supplier.
Thanks for any help on this.
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 913 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
i'm NOT an expert on this, but maybe my response will get one of the experts to respond.
when i've had to use screen ink to coat boards (not vinyl), i used a dispoable foam brush. (black polyfoam). i thinned the ink a lot, and worked from a roller tray. after i got the ink rolled roughly over the surface i sprayed a light mist of ink thinner over it, and gave it a light rolling to even it out.
you asked about the "concept" of applying screen ink to vinyl. screen ink is a lot thicker than paint and it doesn't really have paint's leveling abilities. screen ink is meant to be pushed, not to flow. (you push it through a screen, not flow off the end of a brush). its really designed to NOT flow, but to STAY.
all that said, the few times i've coated vinyl with screen ink, i've used a large screen, taped off the edges, and just screen printed the ink onto the vinyl one section at a time.
i used a 33" x 33 screen and "printed" 28" x 23.75" blocks onto my 24" wide vinyl. I advanced the vinyl 55.5" inches (to skip a block) and did it again. when it had dried, i came back and printed the missing blocks (with 1/8" to 1/4" overlap at the seams).
by screen printing, you get a smooth, even coverage.
i'll add that according to the manufacture's tech support guy, the screen thickness is also important. an open weave, such as used for tee shirts (100 denier), will leave a much thicker coating than a very tight weave. i have 230 mesh screens, because that's what they recommend for the screen enamels i'm using. with the 230, the ink coverage is thin enough to be flexible, and thick enough to coat completely (and it dries quickly). you may want to check with your supplier to see what range the ink is intended for.
hope that helps, even though it isn't about rollers.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
A little thinned ink in an airbrush or a detail gun goes a long way. If I gotta coat a larger area of vinyl with ink, I shoot it outside with the detail gun (a spray gun in between an airbrush and a full size HVLP gun). It makes QUICK work of covering that vinyl.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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[ July 03, 2003, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Ron Helliar ]
-------------------- Ron Helliar Marysville Sign 11807 51st Ave. NE Marysville, WA 98271 (360) 659-4856 Posts: 263 | From: Marysville, WA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I'm with Mike Pipes method. Spray!!! I have never found a really suitable roller. Spraying uses far less ink, covers well without a mark anywhere.
Thin the ink out as much as possible with lacquor thinners and spray a tack coat first as this will be dull due to the thinners reacting with the coating on the vinyl. Further coats will come up glossy.
posted
I just put down my "Roller Foam, Contractor's choice, ultra fine" 4 inch wide roller that I keep on hand and buy in a 5 piece refill bulk package at Home depot. As I often do I had been using it to roll thinned vinyl screening ink onto a big vinyl banner - and stepped over here to see what you folks have been talking about today.
I do vinyl banners with custom color matches for local designers. A lot. These rollers hold up so well I can wrap them airtight and reuse them days later. I no longer even think of using anything else. Also use them for (unthinned) perma-flex on awnings.
If, by chance, I misunderstand the question, my answer is I would at this point use these rollers to roll out most anything on most any substrate.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm guessing your talking about rolling vinyl BANNER MATERIAL with vinyl inks.
Rolling the adhesive stuff puts it on to thick and melts down to the adhesive and ruins it ... spray that.
On banners (or anything else) ... Myra is dead on, on those rollers ... I've had some go for a month or longer of semi-daily use (big on-going ada job) just by wrapping in a bag after each use ... or same one for 3 days/coats of unthinned permaflex ink on awning. (work great with vinyls, enamels, 9700, latex, permaflex) For coating larger I've found the same thing but 7"long but only about an inch thick. Wish I could find them bigger too but they still beat the flip flopping of the cheap foam or having signs that look like they were painted with a cat. (vinyl will do that to some regular rollers)
I also like to thin my vinyl inks with the retarder to allow a little more play time rolling or slip in the airbrush.
Why would you roll vinyl ink on alum
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Don't the inks affect the foam rollers and cause them to swell up. If not is there a supplier that someone knows of that would sell in the hundreds and ship to Ireland.
Any of the British Letterheads know of any rollers that work.
In regard to rolling the screen inks on aluminium. It has just been easier in the past to do it since we use screen inks. Si you said in your post that your suggestion was without fumes. One with hardener is pretty smelly and toxic.
[ March 27, 2002, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Miles Cullinane ]
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 913 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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Are you talking about NazDars Permaflex screen in on awnings of acrylic fabric such as Sunbrella? You mask and roll?
I've always used there DA series catalized ink which is super durable but a pain to use.. I've screened nylon banners with it that have just about dissolved from UV exposure after 3-4 years. The ink still looked as if I printed it yesterday.
Thanks, Bill
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1357 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Yes Bill, the Nazdar Permaflex ... masked and rolled ... I can't imagine getting that goop through mesh. Normally I use the DA inks too (screened or rolled) I've only used the permaflex once because it was the only stuff I could find that came in a gold that would last exterior without the browning ... worked great http://www.letterhead.com/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=017136
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Yes, I use perma flex on sunbrella all the time, and apply it with the fine foam rollers. You can't thin it, and it's like softened butter. You cannot push on it or it will bleed through the fabric. JUst patiently and gently lay it on. It takes a night and a half a day to dry. I put on the second coat after it dries, and the second coat dries in a third of that time. I don't feel I have enough control over the color intensity if I put on the second coat wet on wet. Besides, I don't have to be careful not to push the paint thru the fabric the second time around.
I use Dac-EZE as a mask. Expensive, yes, but worth every penny. It is fabric type "vinyl" comes only 12 " wide, has an aggressive adhesive since it is designed to stick to nylon. I iron it on after transferring it the ordinary transfer tape way. VERY low heat. Almost imperceptible heat. There is no bleeding under the mask, no need for additional adhesive. Hope this answers the questions, and if you ask me to I can send you some rollers to try, Miles.
I am grateful to see it take this direction since I work on awnings every week. sometimes a coulpe of times a week. I use screen ink only on the PVC type fabrics and on the sunbrella type fabrics I use acrylics.
I lay down a mask made from FabTac which is made to go on Sunbrella material. It is really agressive and it is paper based so it is not affected by screen ink (when i use it for pvc material).
I base coat in the same colour as the fabric, dry it with a hairdrier. then I sand it some with scotch cloth (green) and second coat with a base colour for the top coat but in a matt acrylic (dries fast). Heat that and then topcoat with an acrylic gloss and heat till is is partly dry then peel off mask and you are done. If there are any bleeds they are either the same as the material or they are sitting on top of the base coat so I scrape them off with a blade once I have dried them.
the advantage of this system is you are done in the same day and it can be packed and shipped as well.
now getting back to my orginal question
What supplier could I get a sample foam roller from.
Myra thanks for the offer I may take you up on it yet.
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 913 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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We throw them away each time and just a new one (cuts down on the amount of hair in the ink).![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
If I gotta coat a larger area of vinyl with ink, I shoot it outside with the detail gun (a spray gun in between an airbrush and a full size HVLP gun). It makes QUICK work of covering that vinyl.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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