posted
After being vinyl only for 12 years, I've finally gotten interested in painting for added effects on vinyl and dimensional signs. Any tips on the best airbrush to start with? What kind of compressor do you need to start off?
-------------------- Alan Dearborn Dearborn Graphics Hampton, NH USA Posts: 271 | From: NH USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Here's my 2 cents worth--Start with a Paache VL. A great all round duty air brush that you can run with different weight tips & all manner of cups. Good with water or enamels--don't know about laquers. Easy to take apart for thorough cleaning. Double action spray and adjustable spray patterns.
As to compressors, almost any will do, as long as you can sustain/maintain 30 or 40 pounds constant pressure to keep the paint flowing.
Got my Paache back in about 1972, sold it back forth with my oldest brother for many years and finally gifted it to my nephew last year--still works perfect!!
Don't forget some sort of mask, too!
Hope this helps.
-------------------- Wm. J. Krupinski ArtFirst Studio Jefferson, WI kruptoons@yahoo.com Posts: 95 | From: Jefferson, WI USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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Beginner or not......the best you can afford. if you can afford an Iwata, do it. I treat this kind of question as if it were about a guitar. Get the best you can afford and you won't worry about "stepping up" later.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Another vote for the Iwata here. I have a few Badgers and a Paasche but prefer the Iwata. A lot of it is personal preference ... just make sure what you get is a double action model. Compressors ... The diaphram modles are nice and quiet but I like a tank. I like being able to use it for other things too (brad nailer, pumping tires, just blowing dust off stuff, etc.) At home mine is small 1.5hp pancake tank type. And... don't forget to get a regulator and MOISTURE TRAP. I have a trap on the tank regulator and one in the line just behind the brush.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I would consider getting an airbrush that has only ONE tip & needle size. That would be a Badger 155 Anthem (best value for the $$) or an Iwata eclipse (if you are feeling wealthy). If you get an airbrush with different tip sizes, only use the medium tip for best results for most sign work. Don't listen to anyone who says the different tips give you different size spray patterns. They won't. The fine tips are for very thin inks and dyes and really thin illustration paint. Anything thicker will result in frequent skips & clogs. The large size is for stuff like pottery glaze. You will have a huge puddle if you spray something thin through it. The medium tip works great for most stuff you will be spraying for sign work, and will be able to execute razor-thin lines with practice. Remember- tip size regulates VOLUME, not spray width. Both Badger & Iwata have had great luck with their one-size tip airbrushes. The Paasche VL's work ok but have failure-prone two-piece hinged triggers and run their quality-control program in a rather offhand manner. I think a lot of people buy the same airbrush they saw someone else use, which explains the Paasche's enduring popularity despite the availability of better equipment. Paasche was the only game in town for a long time.
A lot of people seem to think you need a special compressor. Just use your shop compressor. all airbrush hoses have a standard 1/4" NPT fitting. I always say buy the biggest compressor you can afford.
posted
Jeremy I hate to disagree with you but there's no way a no. 1 tip will spray a pattern as large as a no.5 tip. Nor will a no.5 tip spray as fine as a no. 1 tip. The other reason i voted for the VL for a beginner is the availablity of parts, they are much more available then Iwata parts. Yes the weak link is the trigger with the paasche's, but i use mine almost daily and get at least 2 years out of a trigger before they start to wear.
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Alan, I have about twenty different kinds of airbrushes that I have purchased over the last 25 years Binks, Badger, Paasche, Iwata just to name a few. I mostly use two out of the bunch, only because they do different things. For fine art and detiled automotive airbrushing I use my Iwata HP-C this is because the tip is very small and the paint or inks must be very thin. For T-shirt and all around general automotive airbrushing I use my Paasche VL.....as a matter of fact I just wore out the body of my first one and was disappointed to have to put it out to pasture. Everyone has their favorites and until you really get the feel of the type of airbrushing you will be doing it will be difficult to just say what is going to work for you. I suggest you try to make it to a letterhead meet and check out first hand the types other people are using. If you have any questions feel free to call or e-mail.
Hetz
-------------------- Jim & Chris Hetzler JC Hetz Studio 513 W 3rd St. Muscatine, IA 52761 563-263-2803 jhetzler@machlink.com www.jchetzstudio.com
"We are the one that makes you look good!" Posts: 137 | From: Muscatine,Iowa,USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I like the Psache VL with a medium tip, or the Iwata Eclipse. I agree with Jeremy to a degree reguarding tip and needle changes, there should be enough range for you in the med. tip unless you do really fine, or really large work.
I have a strong preference for the Iwata airbrushes personally, and find that they are more laquer friendly. If you are sure that you will NEVER spray laquer, then the Paache is a great brush.
[ March 13, 2002, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Jonathan Androsky ]
-------------------- Jon Androsky Posts: 438 | From: Williamsport, PA | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Warpaint: I stand by my claim. The tip sizes are designed so will have a similar size spray when matched with the proper viscosity paint. Yes, you can cheat a slightly larger spray pattern if you use a size bigger than than you should, but you no longer have proper atomization and you will have puddles in the center. Not good airbrushing. And of course you will not have a lot of paint coming thru a fine tip if it is too thick. You will experience more frequent clogs & tip dry. Not good airbrushing. Too many people resort to switching tip sizes to compensate for lack of airbrush control. A bit of background info: I was a paid consultant/instructor for Badger Airbrush in Chicago for several years and wrote parts of the instruction manual for the model 155. I have taught workshops for them cost-to-coast and worked with their engineering staff. I still teach for them. (big class in ND in may!) I have published six magazine articles on the subject. I taught airbrushing at St. Paul Technical College for three years. Airbrushed T-Shirts at Six Flags in Chicago for three years and was supervising instructor there.
posted
While I'm thinking about it, Warpaint's mention of not getting fine detail with a large tip IS of course true even if the tip is matched properly with the (in this case heavy) paint. If you only do super-detail work, you may only use a fine tip, to get the most out of your illustration paint. A lot of compromise occurs to make an airbrush useful to a wide range of people. There are also variables introduced by different air pressures (best psi varies by airbrush/tip size and can be measured with a vacuum guage at bottle socket. Any psi over what creates peak suction only makes more overspray)
posted
Vega 2000 formerly made by Thayer & Chandler now by Badger. It's a workhorse for any material or substrate.
Mine were made by Thayer & Chandler so I don't know if there is a difference now that Badger is making them.
I also have an Iwata HP-BC for illustration. The Paasche is also a good workhorse but the feel is a little bulky. The Vega is smaller and easier to handle. Whatever you do, learn by using a double action right off the bat.
-------------------- John Cordova Gitano Design Studio Albuquerque, NM Posts: 268 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I use Paasche VL's, I have 3 of 'em. I started off using them years ago and I like 'em.
Once you get used to a certain brush you will find that you can make it do whatever the heck you want it to do. All it takes is practice. All the brushes behave differently.
This past weekend I used someone else's Iwatas (RT Thomas) at the letterhead meet in Oklahoma City and I had a tough time gettin used to the guns just to spray some light drop shadows. Not being used to the gun I just didnt have the same fine control with it like I do with my VL's plus RT was runnin TWICE the pressure I usually use but I managed to get the job done and now after trying those guns, I'd be more open to buying one for myself. In fact I probably will be buying one for myself, more just to have another tool in my arsenal than giving up on something that's been reliable.
The only way for you to decide which gun is best for you is to actually try them out for yourself and see what you like or dislike about each one, don't take anyone else's opinions as gospel because sure as hell you will get into the wrong gun that way.
The tips and internal parts of the gun are pretty important but what's even more important is how comfortable you are holding the gun in your hand and physically using it.
As far as tips and spray patterns go, there's only a couple things you need to know. The finer the tip, the tighter the detail you can produce and the thinner your colors have to be in order to spray them. The heavier the tip the less detail you can get but then you can spray thicker materials like glazes. Medium tips such as the Paasche VL #3 setup are good all around tips, they allow some pretty good detail and you can spray the slightly heavier automotive paints, laquers, waterbased t-shirt paints, and even water thin inks and dyes if you really control the color flow from the trigger.
All airbrushes are for more detailed work so if you need a spray pattern larger than a couple inches and you need it to cover a larger area, get a detail gun too. You'll waste less time trying to cover a large area.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I shopped for an airbrush a couple of years ago. I bugged every body in chat and then went to Dixie airsupply and read everything they had. I chose the Iwata eclipse because it was dual action, the O-ring didn't touch the paint and it had only one size tip and needle (less stuff to buy over and over). Also, this gun only had one O-ring on it, where the barrel connected. Some guns have several O-rings that the paint gets all over, and this is where they are having to be replaces frequently. I remember thinking, "...so I could get stopped on a job because of a 49 cent piece of plastic?" That's when I decided on the Iwata Eclipse. I learned sooooo much just from reading the product information.
The trigger allows you to get a wider range of spray, from needle point to 2 inch spray. I got the syphon feed so I could use the little half ounce cup for small highlight or attach a bottle with a small hose in it for more paint at a time. Somebody left an old Badger here and it came with the 3 size tips and needles. Seems to me, one needle, doesn't get left in the tool box and busted from banging around hehehe. The only tip/needle that wasn't bent was the size 5. That is a puddle spitter for sure.
Reading about the brushes is a great option, as they describe the type of work they do best and you may find that one is perfect for what you want to do with it. If you read about the Iwata Eclipse, it is good for ceramic glazes on down to your finer paints. I wouldn't get another brand, unless it's better, but after all that I've read so far, it hasn't happened hehehe. Mike Lavallee told me I should get a gravity feed Iwata Eclipse as it has a cap on the cup, so you can twist around and upside down without spilling the paint all over yourself hehehe.
If it's any consolation, I've been letting my students learn on my Iwata Eclipse and it hasn't suffered any injury so far. It has been dropped a few times (on carpet), but cleaned religiously so it's still in mint condition, no dents or dings or less than optimum performance.
I do wholeheartedly agree, that getting to a meet and handling different kinds of airbrushes will be a fascinating thing.
I wish you success in picking out the one that's right for you!
posted
Alan, I've been airbrushing all sorts of products since 1972 and I still have all of my airbrushes, all 65 of them! When time is money and your working a t-shirt booth all day long, its nice not to have to stop and clean out the previous color from your airbrush! The majority are Paasch VL's, a few Badgers, some Vegas, and even an Aztec. Once I tried the Iwata's line, I was hooked... I've got the full line from the Eclipse to the Micron and they are excellent, but they are a little more tempermental than the VL's and require more attention to detail when maintaining them...have never had any problem finding parts; although, they are a bit more expensive to maintain. There are some realy good points being made here about quality and functionality, which is important; however, you can not begin to tally up all the airbrushes that end up sold for little to nothing at swap meets and yard sales, simply because people either do not seek help from experianced users when they first start out or they do not follow through with the commitment to learn how to use it and make it work for you. There are so many varibles that effect the final outcome and if you do not know were to begin, the airbrush is one tool that, in the hands of a beginner (and sometimes the Pro's)has a very high frustration factor. If you do not understand tip dry, viscosity, moisture effects,...well you should get the picture.
My advise would be that you first seek out someone in your area that would be willing to teach you the basics. They may have a particular airbrush that they prefer. The best thing is to find out why; if they are realy willing to help you then they will spend the time demonstrating why! They may not be doing anything that applies to what you are doing, but they will have a good basic knowledge of the things that will raise that frustration level and help you through it. Even "Some" finger nail airbrush artists will have enough knowledge about the basic concept of the airbrush to help. If not there are several good videos on the market from folks like Terry Hill, Pat Renald, Kent Lind, and even Craig Fraser (AirBrush Action Magazine 1-800-232-8998)
Chances are, if you make the commitment to learn, you will have more than one airbrush in your tool box...it is nice to have a back-up when you reach that frustration point with the brush your using. The VL is a very good brush and it is very rugged and durable. The VL has served me as well as many many airbrush artist quite well...I just happen to find it rather bulky and cumbersome, after experiancing the Iwata line. It's all a matter of tast and talent. While I don't recommend them, I've seen some folks do some pretty amazing things with just an inexpensive single action Badger. I've also seen some pretty amazing things done with rattle cans as well, but if its fine detail you won't or even some realy nice fade outs, you will need to learn how to make the tool work for you, regardles of what your pushing threw it or the medium on which your working with!
Just remember, no matter what someones backround or experiance is, even though there advise is provided with years of trial and error behind it, there will always be someone with a differrent view or approach that has got them passed the same problem, or has developed a differrent technique that no one else could think possible, so keep an open mind and just be a sponge. At some point in time YOU will make the final choice as to what works for YOU. After all, why do ya think we have Panel Jams, Micro Meets, and Sign Conventions...is for the fellowship, good food, and warm fuzzy feeling...Hell no! Everyone wants to know what kool techniques, processes and styles everyone else is making money with! Just kidding...Good luck with your endevor and if you need help or general info e-mail me. Robin
-------------------- Robin Sharrard Sharrard Graphics & Sign Fallon, Nevada rds@phonewave.net "Proud $$$ Supporter" Posts: 282 | From: Fallon, Nevda, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I'll add another vote to the Iawata Eclipse pile. The slimmer design is a plus for me, after using it awhile going back to the Paache VL felt like holding a log.
The trigger action is longer and smoother on the Eclipse. I've used thick enamels, vinyl inks and MP inks with no problem ( gravity feed model ).
Taking them apart seems like a wash to me, no pun intended. The Eclipse has a small metal piece that is a bit awkward to place back in and the VL has the wierd hinge type button. If I found a brush that sprayes like the Eclipse with a simpler design I'd probably get it.
-------------------- Jim Upchurch Artworks Olympia WA Posts: 797 | From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Nov 1998
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
but I managed to get the job done and now after trying those guns, I'd be more open to buying one for myself. In fact I probably will be buying one for myself, more just to have another tool in my arsenal than giving up on something that's been reliable.
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