posted
Where are they?? Have had a complete hard drive crash,bought new hard drive and installed,seyup software. No one awnsers the phone,awnser machine is always full.Registeration on line is a joke,when I purchased the program no customer ID # were issued,now with out a customer # you can not register.Applying for a customer # on line they say you will get a response in a few days.What gives?We are trying to run a business here. Iknow this is not the place normally to do this but,what else. THANKS Ernie
-------------------- Ernest Clark Dahlonega Sign Co. 101 Whispering Winds Dr Murrayville,Ga 30564 Been there, Done that, Probably do it again. Posts: 134 | From: Dahlonega,Ga. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Please accept that I don't mean to "rub salt in your wounds"...my intent with this post is simply to offer you an alternative perspective:
YOU DON'T GET WHAT YOU DON'T PAY FOR - and if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Just reading some of the statements on the websites of certain companies should be enough to get anybody's spider senses tingling.
If I was you, I wouldn't waste one more minute of my valuable time with <$500 software...cut your losses and buy software from an industry leader. Yes you will pay more for it, but you will get VALUE for your purchase.
Sorry...my two cents worth.
Wish you luck!
[ March 04, 2002, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Had a good friend here who got a virus & lost all the info on his hard drive, vmp had him back in the saddle in 2 days,....They are located down under so it helps to be patient as the time difference & date difference makes for slow response by some peoples standards.Slamming them is not gonna get you a faster response. As jon said if ya want to pay 3 to 5 times as much for your cas software I would expect it, but at most shops you only get 2 out of three,....High Quality,...Low Price,...Fast delivery.The program works great,...your hardware failed, you figure out the rest,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Does't matter what you pay for a product,they should at least answer the phone.As for the program,it's great I have been using it since 1.50 no problems,but when no one answers the phone in 2 business days it gets a little worrysome. Ernie
-------------------- Ernest Clark Dahlonega Sign Co. 101 Whispering Winds Dr Murrayville,Ga 30564 Been there, Done that, Probably do it again. Posts: 134 | From: Dahlonega,Ga. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I have attached a letter that was sent to Ernie an hour or so ago, see below.
I am disappointed that when he called he couldn’t get through. I telephone our New York office regularly and usually get through, but sometimes I get voice-mail as well (which is irritating). It’s just one of those things you’re either too busy and the phone’s ringing of the hook or your twiddling your thumbs wishing it would ring (never rains, it pours). That’s why e mail’s excellent, because it can be sorted between all offices an answered quite quickly.
Ernie please accept my apologies…
As for your comments Jon. I agree with your philosophy of “if it sounds too good to be true, it usually isn’t”. But what’s so cheap and nasty about $500 anyway? in most other industries $500 for software is on the higher side. It’s disappointing we have to charge this amount as it is, but due to the high costs of running this type of business and because we don’t charge for updates every other month, we have to cover our costs and continued development. But this certainly doesn’t mean we have to charge “literally” obscene prices for our software to justify its very existence or tiers of resellers along the way taking their 10-30% each!
Given your comments how do you explain the price of a product like Windows or Office XP? This software has taken thousands of people years to write, with decades of research, at an enormous cost (Microsoft spends billions on research alone), yet their products are sold for a tiny fraction of the cost of our competitors sign software, which is practically nothing less than a flea bite when compared to the behemoth of Windows or Office XP! CorelDRAW also comes to mind. Sure their markets are much larger, but based on some of our competitors attitudes toward price, Windows would cost $50,000 a copy! CorelDRAW $10,000 a copy, perhaps more… would this be justified because their programs are so good?
Aside from this point, it’s true and I admit that our software isn’t perfect or suits everyone, I never have and never will. But consider this, since it’s first release in 1998 not one of our customers has been charged for an upgrade, not one! and there’s been over 10 major upgrades and hundreds of minor updates, (can any other software vendor claim this?) In reality we want our customers to have the very best we can produce and we all work very hard around here to make this happen, albeit a little slower than we’d perhaps like. Also we’ve never refused to fix or modify something when it’s brought to our attention in a later release. Right now we’re completely revamping import/export and open/save to be much more reliable – but we won’t be charging anyone for it… we just feel obliged to do it…
In regards to Ernie’s problem: software protection “your damned if you do, and damned if you don’t!” but at the very least with our system you can log on 24/7 and re-register your computer, or contact us via e mail for a quick reply. If you have a dongle or hardware block that happens to fail on a Friday night with a big weekend of work coming up – your in deep #@!*!! and what’s worse, even if you can get it within a few days you’ve got to pay handsomely for it, it’s hardly free of charge? We have tens of thousands of re-registers on our main servers and by far and large most of our customers are very happy with the system we have and we’re also improving it with the next edition of our software to be less sensitive to changes in hardware configurations, to minimize business interruptions.
So in conclusion Jon, I make no apologies for our sincerities, utter disgust for what’s been done to our friends and colleagues over the years and our love of the sign industry… I suggest you get with the program and realize that we’re not all sheep…
Just my two cents worth…
Thanks
Letter to Ernest Clark 03 04 02
Dear Ernie
I remembered your name immediately but couldn't put my finger on it. Anyway your Customer # was issued from here (Australia) because as I recall you purchased the software before we got everything set up in New York as you mentioned in your e mail. That's why Kimone couldn't help you because your records are all here!
So your Customer # is: XXXX XXXX XXXX 5310
I'm sorry you had trouble getting through but we're so busy these days we need more staff! Please e mail wherever possible as you'll get a quick reply... our offices open as others close around the world, which means that we're open practically 24/7 and e mails get through... this would have been sorted overnight Friday had you e mailed then...
posted
Shaun did well defending himself here. I own VmPro and am quite impressed with the software. Unfortunately, with Signlab as my main program and Graphix Advantage as my other to run the Edge, I find that my shop really can't utilize it.
Recently I have been trying to sell it for around $300 which only seems to bring people questioning the value of a program that is so cheap. I suppose the only way we value something is when the cost hurts the pocketbook a bit too much.
Shaun, when is the Future Rip going to be released? It seems like that has been promised for quite a while now.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2786 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Yes, it’s a sad state of affairs when you work for years developing your products and then sell them at what you believe is a fair and reasonable price (not for what the market can bear, just because you can get away with it) and people think you’re somehow trying to scam them… I think we’ve all been a little brain washed for too long…
In regards to FutureRIP – it’s 99.9% finished and is currently being beta tested by several people. However the more Beta Testers the better, so if you’d like to become a Beta Tester please log onto www.futurerip.com/Application_Form.htm fill this in and Submit it…
We’ll then provide you with all the download information you’ll need etc…
Thank you
Shaun Morrell FUTURE CORPORATION LTD
-------------------- Shaun Morrell Furture-1 New York NY Posts: 21 | From: 1123 B'way #311 New York NY 10010 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I own VMP and I'm very satisfied with it. I have had to re-register a couple of times and Shaun and his staff have been very helpful to me. Once I had to re-register the day of the Sept 11 tragedy and the NY office is 22 blocks away from GZ so I had to wait to be able to re-register (understandibly so).
As far as the money, hell I bought it when it was $399.00 and It has done me very well. There's nothing wrong with them charging $500.00 for it, it's not a toy program like some may think when hearing the price, it does all I need it to and then some.
Just my dollar two ninety eight worth.
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I like this program beacuse it does EVERYTHING a sign shop needs to do as far as cutting vinyl letters. Its the best buy for the money. a majot plus for VMP is that there are several ways to access most functions. This makes a transition from anothe program much easier. I think the fonts alone are worth the money. VMP doesnt crash much either.....very stable..
Posts: 3223 | From: Sodus,NY,USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Wipe that smug grin off yer yella "Photo coming soon" face!
There is nothing wrong with selling [or buying] <$500 software. However, it is unfair and/or misguided to characterize more expensive software from industry leaders as "literally obscene", "ridiculously overpriced", and [by repeated implication] downright immoral - without understanding the VALUE ADDED business model and its inherent costs and benefits. There's also no point in dragging irrelevant comparisons to Microsoft and Corel into the discussion.
Real VALUE ADDED [such as providing highly responsive technical support and service] costs money…it is expensive to build, maintain and continually improve the infrastructure necessary. Typically, industry leaders build these expenses into their cost structure...and yes, the consumer pays for the value added: UP FRONT.
Let's examine someone like Ernie's real cost of ownership for <$500 software... -SOFTWARE: $500 -2+ days of lost productivity? [$1000-$1500] -Potential loss of customer order[s] or even customer[s]???
Before you know it, leading software -- even at literally obscene, ridiculous and downright immoral prices -- might begin to look awfully cheap by comparison, don't you think?
I'm not trying to take a run at Shaun, his product, or his company [as a matter of fact, Shaun, I wish you well... ] and in no way am I attempting to be condescending or moralizing. I just don't happen to think that cheaper is a better buy. Ernie's "I'm trying to run a business here" comment suggested to me that perhaps his expectations for tech support and service were unrealistic, based on the amount [<$500] that he paid for his software. I offered a well-meaning reply that I thought might lend a somewhat different perspective on the matter.
Yes, it's a sad state of affairs when you work for years developing your products and then sell them at what you believe is a fair and reasonable price [based on the value you add and the numerous innovations you bring to market] and people think you're somehow trying to scam them...
Do I get to join the club with Shaun, and Rapid Roger, HK?
[ March 05, 2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I have since visited your web site and see that you’re a reseller for one of our competitors products. I should have checked before replying to you in the first place. I’m sorry but I don’t believe we can have an ongoing, open and objective debate under these circumstances because we are both too close to the debate itself.
However I would like to respond to your points before closing. I disagree with your analysis of Value Added services if it is discontinued 30 to 90 days after purchasing the product, which is generally the case with the majority of sign software I’m familiar with. Most manufacturers and resellers charge “per minute” or on “contract” for technical support after the mandatory warranty period over and above the initial purchase price and it’s usually expensive.
Theoretically and based on some of the PRICES I’ve seen charged for these products, Tech Support should be free on an 800 # for at least 5 to 7 years and ALL UPGRADES including CDs, manuals and training media should also be completely free of charge over this period. And before you dismiss this, just remember this: We’ve been doing this since 1988 and have spent tens of thousands of man hours and large sums of money doing it, so we have a pretty good idea what it costs to produce sign software and believe me I’m being more than generous (10 years is a better estimate). I also have a pretty good idea what tech support costs and most manufacturers rely on their resellers to do all the tech support themselves for the BENEFIT of having a dealership with large margins. We (the manufacturer) offer FREE Tech Support FOR LIFE via Internet and e mail, which is fast and convenient and have never refused to help anyone…
Furthermore, our initial campaign was based on a “cross-grade offer” whereby customers would provide details about their current sign software to get a discount for VinylMaster Pro. As we market our products in several countries we now have a very clear breakdown of who has or had what and for how long. During this campaign we ran several surveys and asked customers what their biggest gripe was with their current software and other than price, Tech Support was the number one complaint… over 70% of people were very unhappy with Tech Support and a similar number with Customer Service… You only need to read some of the posts on this site to see plenty of evidence of this…
As far as Ernie’s downtime goes, he would have been up and running within minutes using our online registration or by e mail, at any time of the day or night 24/7/365 (Don’t forget his hardware failed – not his software). Now he knows about this and has his Customer #, I’m sure he’ll never be down for this long again. But more importantly what would’ve happened if his Dongle had of died! Are you telling me that he would have had a replacement by Monday morning at no charge? And even if he did – too bad about his weekend!
I’d love to go on, but as mentioned I believe it’s not appropriate on this forum… and as for the joining the club everyone’s welcome…
Thank you
Shaun Morrell FUTURE CORPORATION LTD
-------------------- Shaun Morrell Furture-1 New York NY Posts: 21 | From: 1123 B'way #311 New York NY 10010 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I have had the same problem but have been only waiting 5 days for a reply from VM? My computer had a virus and crashed my CD drive and I can not deresgister the program to sell it. I'm still waiting for help from VM, maybe this week they can help us out?
The program is pretty good and great value for the money but we have been using Flexi Sign and Omega and really have no use for the VM, at this point I can not do anything until the answer my e-mail and let me know what I can do to deregister the program or get a new ID to sell it since the PC I was using has been replaced and we did not load VM on our new PC.
-------------------- Leo Namiot Sign World, L.L.C.
"A Business Without A Professional Sign Is A Sign Of A Unprofessional Business" Good Day All, Leo Wholesale To The Trade... U.L. Listed Signs,Edge II Graphics Posts: 57 | From: Waterbury, CT USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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You wrote to us on Sunday at 4:38pm EST and I replied to you within 24 hours of your request and waived our registration rules based on your advice, to assist you under the circumstances.
Also, it is only fair that everyone else here is aware that you run a sign bulletin board that we withdrew our advertising from some months ago.
This is a transcript of your email and my reply below (note I am in a time zone 16 hours ahead i.e. Tuesday 8:00am my time, is Monday 4:00pm in Connecticut):
Original E Mail Properties:
Return-Path: <SignWorld@aol.com> Delivered-To: shaunmorrell@futurecorp.net Received: (qmail 26279 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 21:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.5) by ns1.futurecorporation.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 21:38:59 -0000 Received: from SignWorld@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id m.181.47f473f (16931); Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:38:34 -0500 (EST) From: SignWorld@aol.com Message-ID: <181.47f473f.29b3f1da@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:38:34 EST Subject: Help Please To: tech@future-1.com, askus@future-1.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_181.47f473f.29b3f1da_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10552
Reply E Mail Properties:
From: <shaunmorrell@futurecorporation.ltd> To: <SignWorld@aol.com> References: <181.47f473f.29b3f1da@aol.com> Subject: Re: Help Please Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:26:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01C1C41F.7F721DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
-------------------- Shaun Morrell Furture-1 New York NY Posts: 21 | From: 1123 B'way #311 New York NY 10010 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
We never received any e-mail from Future Corp. and running a sign board has what relevance to the question and to the non support?
I did not say anything bad about your program so why the dig?
Maybe if you were so busy you would have the money to advertise and not just post notes on several sign boards under different names?
-------------------- Leo Namiot Sign World, L.L.C.
"A Business Without A Professional Sign Is A Sign Of A Unprofessional Business" Good Day All, Leo Wholesale To The Trade... U.L. Listed Signs,Edge II Graphics Posts: 57 | From: Waterbury, CT USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I think you may have me confused with someone else? The only “sign industry” chat boards I have posted on in the past 12 months is yours, this one and the VMP Users Group. As for other names please send the details so I can investigate if someone is claiming to be me. I always log on under my name and company…
In regards to any “Dig”. All I have done is list down the facts that I have in front of me. When e mails are undelivered we get a warning message with reply details, and nothing has come back from your web server to date.
The reference to your site is to allow other readers to judge all the facts at hand, not just one opinion or perspective.
I look forward to seeing the details of your claim regarding my posting elsewhere…
Thank you
Shaun Morrell FUTURE CORPORATION LTD
-------------------- Shaun Morrell Furture-1 New York NY Posts: 21 | From: 1123 B'way #311 New York NY 10010 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
The fact remains that I still have not heard back to my e-mail in regards to deregsitering my program so I can sell it? If you sent it can you resend it because I never received it?
I have seen posts on signweb as well as signindustry over the past 12 months. I am not here to promote any site I am here to ask a question Like I do on a regular basis on most all sign post boards.And since I never gotten a response as did the poster here MAYBE it's YOUR SERVER?
As far as the product goes, like I said it's a pretty good program for the money but Flexi Sign and Omega are the two we use everyday and have no use for vinyl master which some one can put to good use of which it's not getting now.
-------------------- Leo Namiot Sign World, L.L.C.
"A Business Without A Professional Sign Is A Sign Of A Unprofessional Business" Good Day All, Leo Wholesale To The Trade... U.L. Listed Signs,Edge II Graphics Posts: 57 | From: Waterbury, CT USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
No problems Leo - I've resent it... let me know if it doesn't arrive!
By the way I've never heard of signweb until just now - I'll take a look and see what I find... and I haven't been to signindustry.com for at least 12 months maybe more...
Thanks for the info - I'll take a look...
Shaun Morrell FUTURE CORPORATION
-------------------- Shaun Morrell Furture-1 New York NY Posts: 21 | From: 1123 B'way #311 New York NY 10010 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Personally, I think VMP is great value. The service is also exceptional. My system was out of action only last week.Consequently I was de-registered; I had a reply to my email within hours. For me, the value is TOTALLY there. I find it rude that companies would charge for problems with their software. Great work Shaun.
-------------------- Linda Seymour Bundaberg, Q.L.D Australia
"DARE!" Signage of Distinction Bundaberg freeloner2001@dingoblue.net.au Posts: 94 | From: Q.L.D Australia | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Iwould like to set this issue of VMP and myself straight. First I thought that thier office in N.Y. and phone nos.Ihad for registeration was what I needed.I failed to reach anyone by phone there,so went to thier web site,found the place to register but my not having a customer no.could not.(Ipurchased my copy before the move to N.Y.) As soon as Shaun saw my post he sent me the email and my customer no.,I then went to the online registeration site and recieved my code,up and running. As far as value,Ihave seen some of the other software out there and this can do as much and maybe more with less hassel. Thanks you Shaun Ernie
-------------------- Ernest Clark Dahlonega Sign Co. 101 Whispering Winds Dr Murrayville,Ga 30564 Been there, Done that, Probably do it again. Posts: 134 | From: Dahlonega,Ga. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
] and in no way am I attempting to be condescending or moralizing. I just don't happen to think that cheaper is a better buy. Ernie's "I'm trying to run a business here" comment suggested to me that perhaps his expectations for tech support and service were unrealistic, based on the amount [<$500] that he paid for his software. I offered a well-meaning reply that I thought might lend a somewhat different perspective on the matter. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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