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I have a guy that wants me to do a wood grain/blasted effect on signfoam with some lettering and minimal design. I have done a couple of these signs before and they took a ton of time, and I always thought I should have charged more.
Sign size: 2'X6' Both sides blasted with woodgrain effect, lettering and a cheesy looking face - their design, not mine.
Colors: Probably 3 or 4.
They will put it up. But it's in a 3 store strip mall, and the owner will be making the other two leasees put their business signs up too....so it could be 3 signs total.
I was thinking about $700.....am I way off either direction?
The last sign I did was about a 4' X 6 1/2' sign for a subdivision.....One side blasted, lettering and a bit of design and about 5 colors. I charged $1100 and I swear, there was so much labor involved I wish I would have charged $1800.
This one, again was installed by the Contractor...I just provided the sign.
Thanks for any input.
Oh yeah, and while I'm thinking about it....is there a better way or material for painting foam? I used 1-shot over the recommended primer/filler the last time and it took like weeks for the stuff to dry. I read somewhere in here where a guy used regular house paint and it was cheaper, quicker, lasted longer, etc...???
posted
How thick is the material and how are you mounting it?
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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If doing this sign is going to cause you hemmeroids, lack of sleep, or a generally poor feeling, I would suggest that you sub-contract this sign out a wholesaler and mark up their price.
A mark up does not include the design time, but as you have made mention that the client has one already done, you don't have to worry too much. I would mark up 50 - 100% (depending on the price you get from the wholesaler and you desired level of income) and add an hour of design time (for the tweaking that is bound to happen) to derive your selling price.
The price you mentioned for the other sign you sold isn't too awfully far off the mark. Add some to it and divide by square foot to compare prices.
Hope this is helpful. Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Hey Todd, as has been suggested it might be easier for you to sub these out if you get them infrequently. I do them for several area sign shops. Right now I'm a bit busy with a retail job. I have 30 sheets of sign foam in the shop to be rubbered, blasted and painted. I've got two weeks to finish and I'm a one man shop. Should be fun. As soon as I got the deposit for this job every job I bid for the last year came in. I have two 11 1/2 foot by 5 foot sandblasted and gilded granite signs to do now also. I've been making patterns on the plotter I bought from you all day today. I hope I can come up for air at John Smith's bash in a few weeks.
-------------------- Dennis Goddard
Gibsonton Fl Posts: 1050 | From: Tampa Fl USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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Thanks for the advice...and nice to hear from you Dennis. Glad to hear the Roland is cranking away for ya. I saw some of your work posted on the portfollio forum a while back and was VERY impressed. You do some really nice stuff.
Well, I think I'm going to quote the sign out at $75 a square ft and paint with Latex per John Deaton's advice. Has everyone/anyone here had the same success that John has had with Latex paint?
Thanks to you, too Bruce. I never considered that I could get it done somewhere else....do you or anyone else have some sources? Dennis would be a great one...but sounds like he is buried. I would also have to get the bid accepted by the customer first, I suppose. Thanks again everyone.
Oh, Pierre - The guy is having a really nice columned frame with a "peaked' roof constructed that kind of matches his building...not sure who is doing it...but did briefly see the blueprint. Really nice looking. The panels would probably be mounted to "U" shaped brackets that would be somehow bolted into the side columns. He wants to be able to remove the panels if the leasee changes, so he can put up a different sign or a "for lease" sign, so I suggested this type of bracket arrangement so he could bolt the sign through the bracket for easy removal.
I must admit, I normally don't do free standing signs, so am kind of naive in this - I mostly do custom-fleet graphics. The signs, like I say, would be mounted between circular columns or "pillars". Any suggestions? He said he would have the construction/building guys do the mounting of the sign.
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Todd I don't know if this will help but here goes. Our single faced sandblasted signs start at about $350.00. That is 3 sq.ft and we have that as a minimun. They go up from there. Add a second side and we add %80 for the second side. Yours is 12 square feet, double sided and I wouldn't touch it for under $1400.00. Most of our HDU signs we use latex and have had great sucess with it! In a warm place with a fan you can dry it in about 1 1/2 hours which means more coats and more colors in less time.
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If the panel is going to be between two posts I would suggest two HDU panels sandwiched over an aluminum or MDO center to give it some rigidity. Six feet is quite a distance for unsupported HDU to span - it could be easily broken.
As far as the cost, square footage is not the best way since there are so many variables to consider, but it is a good place to start. I have a miniumum of $100 a square foot and then it goes up from there. Other posts on this BB has discussed the pitfalls of pricing by square footage. Since this is a double faced sign I would figure an additional 75% for the second face - or a minimum of $175 a square foot - total $2,100. I would be more inclined to charge about $2,500 - $3,000, but then I don't know what the artwork looks like.
In my opinion, I believe that latex paints would be your best route to take. They dry quickly, are easy to apply, and fade less quickly that enamels. Use the primer as you indicated and then about three coats of latex.
You were right that these types of signs are labor intensive, therefore, you should be compensated for your efforts. If it was easy, anybody could do it. After so many years in this business one of the things I dread the most is to spend countless hours on a project and then to find out that I was loosing money all the time. There is a great satisfaction in knowing that you have produced a great sign, but it's radiance is diminished when you have been working for less than minimum wage. Guess how I found that out?
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks Steve and Raymond! I knew after the work that I 'screwed" myself on the first two signs I did.....never again!
Your advice is worth a lot, and I thank you all for freely giving it.
One question: Janette mentioned a "rubber" coating after the primer....what's that all about? I'll email her too.
Duh! I'm not as stupid as I must sound...I think what Janette was referring to when she said "rubber" was the sandblast stencil....hey it's Monday...and I wind up a little slow the first day of the week.
posted
Hi Todd, High quality acrylic latex paints work best for us too. I usually spray them on with an HVLP gun and apply thin coats. We have used both Jay Cooke's and FSC-88 WB primers with good success. Solid color acrylic latex stains work well as a primer too. I coat all blasted backgrounds with solid color stains.
As far as price, for single face signs, $72 and up depending on complexity: fancy shapes, colors, ornamentation, logos etc etc. Double face: $119 and up
I have sold single faced signs for as high as $99 per square foot but usually average between $82 and $85. Once again, the more bells and whistles, the higher the square foot price.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7405 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Thank you all....I priced my double sided blasted foam sign at $1,800.00. Again, this was a 2'X6' sign, both sides, probably 4 colors. I faxed the guy the estimate 2 days ago and haven't heard from him.
Ya know what? If he doesn't call, that's just fine with me....cause I'm not working my butt off for nothing. It's my price or go somewhere else. Luckily, the sign biz isn't my main income....but I still want the going rate...and am not about to work for peanuts. Sign talent is an awesome gift...and I say that anything that is pleasing to the eye and lasts for years...is worthy of a fair wage.
Todd
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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