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A repeat customer has specified, against my opinion, ronan aquathane clear over maroon latex for all future signs. I suggested two part acrylic uranthane paint and clear coat which I have experience with and know it works. The choice was cost related and I need facts to help me decide to walk or stay. After reading what ronan writes it sounds great but I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. The big question, how long will it protect and when it fails what does it look like and does it make refinishing harder. these signs are in florida facing south and near the beach.
-------------------- Mike Sheehan Classic Sign & Mirror, Inc. 909 North Tarragona St. Pensacola, Fl. 32501 Posts: 6 | From: Pensacola, Fl. | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hey Mike, good to see you here. Are you considering heading back to the old grounds for that Letterhead meeting in Massachusetts? I think the clear Ronan stuff is acrylic. Kent Smith would be a good person to ask about the comparison and life expectancy. Ciao
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Hey Rick, I don't know about The Mass meet in May. I do want to get up to The Worcester area sometime to visit my brother and his family who I haven't seen in years. Wouldn't mind a bruins game in the new fleet center too. As to the Ronan water based clear situation, I'am hoping someone will be able to show me the future. What will these signs look like in three years, Five years, etc. The customer expects future renovations to be cheaper and that is the major motivator. So how is this product going to react with age. Latex finishes get thinner with age and are fairly easy to refurbish. Does this finish peel up like varnish? Will it delaminate and get foggy? Is this a new untested product? We are talking a major renovation of about 100 carved, some are almost ten years old, carved in redwood, the newer ones are Signfoam. These signs that are betweem 10 and 56 ft long. The fact that they are not using gold leaf anymore makes me want to walk away. Without telling me, he had a few of the signs refinished. they look shiny and the letters are dead looking. He is not impressed but thinks they look ok. He is going to refinish all the signs to match, even the one's that look good. This will certainly cause a feeding frenzy with the larger sign companies because of the money involved. On the other hand, the customer has treated me fairly over the years and is greatful for all the work I have done. He has stated that this is a cost decision, so I want to give him accurate info on what to expect.
-------------------- Mike Sheehan Classic Sign & Mirror, Inc. 909 North Tarragona St. Pensacola, Fl. 32501 Posts: 6 | From: Pensacola, Fl. | Registered: Mar 2002
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While we have had no experience with the Ronan clear, we have used the Chromatic Acrylic clear. Sad to say it was with disasterous results. It turned milky white just before it jettisoned itself off the sign. Fortunately, it was on our sign so we didn't have to eat any crow about it.
I would tend to shy away from any latex clear, especially one that a client reccommended. Not to say that they all don't know what is going on but most don't have a clue about finishes and such. I would be skeptical that the decision is going to be "bottom line" based. That sort of thing just scares the bejeepers out of me. Just my opinion based on almost 30 years experience...
B/T/W... Great to see you here. I will tell the T-Man that I did...
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Golly...waterborne acrylic clears by themselves have a life expectancy of 1 to 2 years, their advantage over traditional varnishes is that they adhere to most anything and do not re-wet enamels etc. The clears with UV inhibitors in them will last twice as long as those without, given the particular job specifics and location. When they fail, they either chalk out or peel off in sheets depending on ambiant humidity and internal moisture migration. Just before peeling, they will appear milky when there is moisture behind them. When we created the Chromatic clears, we were looking for a finish that would double the life of the finish that was being topcoated. Our intent was to create a low-tech product which could be brushed, rolled or ragged on with little concern for sophisticated application process, low VOC concerns, rapid dry and no damage to the substrate. If you can catch it for recoat before it fails, then it can last indefinately as each successive layer will protect the last. Having said that, it is possible to get the clear on so thick that it will fall off due to its own weight and thicker coats begin to limit the capabilities of the UV inhibitors to work properly. If the customer needs a finish which will last longer than a few years then a two component urethane is the answer. On foam, almost any clear will work well as there is little expansion/contraction to be concerned with. On other substrates, some research into those two components which have greater flexability is in order. Hope this CLEARS up the issue.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Mike. Mr. Kent Smith's reply as well as Mr.Bowers' is in my view absolutely correct.You get what you pay for.That's one thing that you've taught me. But there is the issue of DOLLARS THAT WILL BE SPENT on this project. I would state my opinion in writing about the longevity concerns and give him a price on using HIS brand. Nobility and reputation are very important but do the job anyway and give no warranty. Express to the client that this action will only buy a little time. The client may already know this and probably wants the good stuff but doesn't have the cash right now. Approach this as a way to help him make it to more prosperous times and he'll remember that, not the inflexible artisan that had to have it his way.
I have all the confidence that your decision will be the correct one.Take care.
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