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Hi Heads. Whilst driving to Butler this morning, I noticed a van. What stood out to me was that the signmaker who stuck the stickers on it must have used a level line as a starting point. It looked crooked! I usually apply the paint or vinyl based on the body lines of the vehicle, unless I'm doing a big box truck or trailer. Otherwise, it looks "wrong". Once, an anal"lurker" type client was watching & made me use a level line. He was pleased with the results; I thought it was gag-worthy. Is this just an optical illusion? Do you go with what your head tells you rather than what seems to be scientifically correct? Have I been inhaling too much enamel reducer? My head was never correct anyhoo... What is your opinion? Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Jill doesn't it just drive you nuts? I see crooked letters all the time. I usually try to go with the bottom body lines of the vehicles.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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I did the same thing on my wifes Expedition. I lettered up the rear quarter glass with "Sturgis Signworks". The window is cut at a slight angle at the top, and runs with the bodyline at the bottom. The truck also has a slight rake to the front end.l I measured from the bottom of the glass, and,(opticly), it looks a little crooked, but it "travels" well with the body lines. But- if I would have used a level, or measured from the top of the glass- it would have looked worse. I think it would have looked like its going uphill, against the "flow" of the vehicle.
Just use the "T.L.A.R." method- That Looks About Right!
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Barba ]
-------------------- "B0LT" on the chat room thing.
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Si, I have to disagree with you on this one. Yes up close it looks ok if you follow the body lines but when you step back it looks horrible. The new Fords seem to be the worst at this. Unless your design calls for the copy to be at an angle put it on level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- David Thompson Pro-Line Graphics Martinsville, NJ
I'm not this dumb, it's just the paint fumes talkin' Posts: 398 | From: Martinsville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2001
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Put it on level to what? You have to find a true body line and use all your measurements off that. Ford vans are the worse, including the flared doors.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2786 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Hi David... Level to the ground, unless you live in San Francisco.... love- JILL ps Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair....
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Have to go with Si on this one, tho' his answer was a little on the too brief side. Fords are the worst offenders with the coke-bottle shape, and no two parallel body lines. My thing is to level all to the lower beltline body line, and even that one pitches down towards the front of the vehicle. Creates a visual problem for copy placement on the front doors.
With the 88 intro of Chev/GMC pickups, the same thing happened-- the body line at the bottom of the window glass goes down towards the front-- level the lettering to the bottom of the door, and the top line looks like it goes uphill at the front.
I think consistency is the watchword here-- pick a reference line and stick to it for all copy lines. Well-- as much as possible.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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i did 2 new ford vans....6 months ago. i did them 1st one with the lettering level to roof. well one of the guys that worked there didnt like it(because i didnt have it line up with the belt line) i changed it and did 2nd van same as 1st. did another one prior to these 2, and made lettering level with roof andbottom of truck...they liked it.......go figure.......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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i am redoing a ford van right now...because of this same issue.
i made it level then split the difference...but no matter how i put it on it looks uneven... from the distance it looks right but if your eye uses the belt line then it looks uneven.
i warned the customer of this issue and he told me what ever i think was fine but, here i am redoing it...i will aline the copy with the belt line (his new choice)even if it looks like it runs down hill.It is what the customer wants ....
Thought that i covered my self on this one but will tighten it up with the customer and let them chose before i apply. i had this problem before and made changes and the customer did not like it ether way..but lived with it.
this makes me so frustrated!!!!!*&#@%$
chris
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
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Sorry I did'nt mention it before, but I usually measure of the pinchweld at the bottom of the van. [ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: warpaint ]
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: warpaint ]
-------------------- David Thompson Pro-Line Graphics Martinsville, NJ
I'm not this dumb, it's just the paint fumes talkin' Posts: 398 | From: Martinsville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2001
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I ALMOST always go with the bottom-est horizontal line of the vehicle, which, in SOME cases, is the actual botton of the vehicle. In a few cases, I "box in" the area (with fineline tape) I'm gonna letter, and stand back and look at it. Then go from there.
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I found this to be an issue for me, with my van. So I used the center body line for my reference line and put a script along the top, so it wouldn't be so obvious the top body line wasn't perpendicular to the center one, and used the block copy near the straight center line.
I wanted to be able to stand at one end of the van and look down to the other end, and not make excuses for sompn not lining up, so I pounced my lil patterns and then ran a snap line from one end of the van to the other to keep the copy on a similar vein. I wish I could tell you which line for you to use, that depends on your copy, the sizes, weights, colors, it's a visual thang. I used the top base line on my script and slid every thing else around to balance out the negative space. I may have done a poor job to some folk's beliefs, but, I'm happy with it and it gets looks every where I go...phone calls even hehehe.
I'll go take a pic and pop it on my website, so you can see...brb...okay it's up now, just scroll down to see the other side.
(this is only the first coat of paint, hand lettered, I want to get the mural done and then use the outline colors to tie the sides in with the back if possible. It's still in progress till my brain quits farting hehehe)
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Linda Silver Eagle ]
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I like to use the level line for a base.. BUT. I also try to use some sort of distortion to the graphic so that the top of it sorta conforms to the upper lines on the van. Or sometimes..I sneek a lil "gingerbread filler" on top at one end or the other to offset misfits. These tricks also work real well on boat graphics..the sides of most boats are wedged..and trasnsoms are always bent,Ther'e no such a thing as a straight line on a boat....looks like Detroit is followin that rule these days???
posted
Well, I've actually done a van or two (fords) with big graphics where I measured the distortion of the vans bodylines and made distorted lettering to match. Both sides were dif. ofcourse, & I charged for the extra work, but it came out very slick. Most of the time, I believe baseline of copy should be level with the closest bodyline. The idea of using a level is ridiculous. Think about it, if the trucks not sitting on a perfectly level grade, the lettering will be off when the truck isn't; the otherside will be off in the opposite direction! The otherway out of this is to design everthing on a tilted baseline. They can't argue with you then!
-------------------- Jerry Steward Sign&Print Bethlehem, PA Posts: 126 | From: Bethlehem, PA | Registered: Oct 2001
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I'm with Cheryl on this one. The bottom of the vehicle. Sometimes the body lines will be parallel with this sometimes not. The old Ford vans had body lines parallel with the bottom all the way to the top The new Ford vans have the lowest body line parallel with the bottom of the truck the others go off in all different directions. The main band is particularly troublesome, it not only doesn't key into the bottom or the top, it bends This band was always THE place to put the incidentals, such as Heating*Air Conditioning*Plumbing. It's best to design one of these with all the trouble spots in mind. Another tough model is a Freightliner FL80. This is the smallest one they make and is found in bob truck, wrecker and dump truck configurations. The door has a seam parallel to the bottom about a third to halfway up, the window is cut at a severe angle downwards to the front of the truck. Get your lettering a little to high and if you don't know what "compulsive graphic relativity" is all about, you will soon find out No amount of measuring will convince your eye that it's on straight.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
The new Ford vans have the lowest body line parallel with the bottom of the truck the others go off in all different directions. The main band is particularly troublesome, it not only doesn't key into the bottom or the top, it bends 
This band was always THE place to put the incidentals, such as Heating*Air Conditioning*Plumbing. It's best to design one of these with all the trouble spots in mind. Another tough model is a Freightliner FL80. This is the smallest one they make and is found in bob truck, wrecker and dump truck configurations. The door has a seam parallel to the bottom about a third to halfway up, the window is cut at a severe angle downwards to the front of the truck. Get your lettering a little to high and if you don't know what "compulsive graphic relativity" is all about, you will soon find out 
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