Several weeks, month's or years go by and one day you recieve a call from some other sign shop or printer or whoever. "We are doing new business cards for Mr. Bush (or whatever, letterhead, tee shirts, etc.) and would like you to email or fax or in some other way, supply Mr. Bush's logo".

Now we designed Mr. Bushes logo and he has no copywrites on it. It may have cost him $250 to $750 dollars for us to design it. If he had gone to a graphic artist to design a logo it would have cost alot more but since it was part of the original layout it cost much less from us.

I got a theory, so I'll give it a chance to get blasted.

I think, for me at least, it would be a good idea to have 6 levels of "logos" created for a fictious customer.

Each level of logo developement more complex and each with a price. Then when the customer comes in you can show him exactly what he gets for what he wants to spend.

By making samples in advance, you will see how long it takes and then price each level the way you feel works for you.

This should work out as a win/win situation for both you and the customer. No price dickering, and the customer should pay up front.

I miss read the post. here is the second half:

Once you design a logo for someone, and they pay for it, it IS THEIR PROPERTY. If you had a logo designed by someone else, would you feel you had to get permission for the use of the logo every time you wanted to use it for t-shirs, stationary, yada yada yada.

Copyrights law provides protection for the coporation who sells their logos on shirt, coffee cups, yada yada yada. They have every right to charge vendors a marketing fee to reproduce the logo and sell it on items.

The graphic desiger has been paid. End of story.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Nuttle:
Mr. Bush comes back in a week or so to check the layout and give approval. He loves the layout and the newly designed logo. He gives approval and several weeks later comes and picks up his whatever. Pays for it when he picks it up and goes away a happy customer.

Now we designed Mr. Bushes logo and he has no copywrites on it. It may have cost him $250 to $750 dollars for us to design it. If he had gone to a graphic artist to design a logo it would have cost alot more but since it was part of the original layout it cost much less from us.

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What's the rule on this one? The guy has paid for your service, you (any sign designer, not you specifically, Steve) designed his logo for his business and he uses it. Does this guy now not own the copyright on this? Can't HE have it reproduced if HE wants to? I don't think you can stop him from doing that.

Here's what I have done... I guess I don't really have any hard and fast rules on it... Before computers, I would draw up a design for the sign or lettering project, show it to the customer and get it approved. If this guy wanted t-shirts, business cards, letterheads or something else I would for an extra fee give him a camera ready black and white. I would always suggest that he kept the original as much resolution could be lost in copies of copies of copies. There was also the fact that newsprint varies and a bad copy can look extra crappy on cheapo newsprint.

So, there would be a charge for that. Now, I may or may not charge for a computer file to be sent to someone or to be provided on disk or CD to the client. This is all AFTER I HAVE BEEN PAID for the work I have done. Never, Never let a "sample" go out on disk. It will go down the street to your competition.

I have had other sign shops or screen printers or printers or etc. ask for stuff on disk or to be e-mailed. In some cases, where I have a really good working relationship with these people, we share a lot of stuff back and forth. In some cases, I say to the person requesting the art work that I would be glad to do the job for (client) myself. If he feels that he would like you to do the job, that's fine. He can start from scratch, well not really because you at least have a design to go by... use that truck door... and take the time to do it the right way. Of course, he may have to charge you for some additional design time.

I had one guy (a sign shop) call me requesting some real simple artwork for one of my clients. He was even going to send his son to my shop to pick up the artwork on disk. I got this message on a voice mail and he sounded very urgent. I called my client (also a friend of mine) to see what was up. The client told me that he had done some welding fabrication work for this shop and in exchange for payment the sign shop would provide him with some signs. He also said that this shop told him that he had heard that I was not in the sign business anymore, so he would be glad to offer his services. I told my client that I did not mind if he wanted to exchange work with this shop, but I knew that the guy had a scanner and could buckle down and do the work himself, I even provided font names and such. After all of this, I got my client back.

This has been asked about quite a few times before here. What I would like to see is the actual wording of a logo design contract. Seems to me that you got paid to design it, but with nothing signed on paper giving them the rights to the design, seems you still own it.

So come on folks, how about giving us some ideas on how to word a logo contract, what does yours say?.

My words exactly!

To those that want the Artwork to pass on to Another Shop!

Stick It!
Sharpen It!
Sketch It!
Or Show me the Money!

A few times from Customers in the past asking for files because their friends can cut with a computer they just got.

It is interesting to see how evryone handles different situations. This is a situation that does seem to crop up more and more often.

We charge $300-$500 for a "logo" design. We burn it on a CD and give the client an .ai, .cdr (ver 5 and 8), a .gif, a .tif, a .jpg, and a .bmp file in both color and black and white. When we sell a "logo" design, this gives the client free use of their "logo" in whatever application that they choose to use it for. We claim only an exhibition right to the artwork. All copyright and/or ownership is transferred to the client.

None of the vector type files are ready for cutting meaning that all overlays and such would have to be welded or subtracted, etc. Vinyl cut files are for our use only. We also do not include color separations of any kind.

The client gets one CD burned for their money and they are free to do whatever the heck that they want to do with it. Make back up copies, floppies, use it for ring toss, it is their's for any use they deem fit. Replacement CD's cost $75.00. This replacement fee is known up front so that they are more likely to keep an eye on where their disk is and more likely to copy whatever a printer, t-shirt printer, etc needs to a floppy instead of handing out the CD and hoping for it's return.

That's what we have been doing and it really seems to work for us. I hope it does for you, too.