posted
Thought that you might be interested in a conversation that just took place across the street from my shop.
Looking out the window I saw a young man installing a sign on a professional building and I didn't recognize the face and there was no identification on the pickup. This is a small town and all of us signfolks know each other and visit back and forth in each other's shops.
Being the friendly sort that I am, I just thought it would be neighborly to wander over and introduce myself and welcome the new kid to town. Since I had bid on the job also, I wanted to see if all the specs had been met.
We had a nice visit and I found out that he had just opened a shop in the town where I live and business was pouring in. After trading some questions and answers about how things were going and what each liked to do best, and such, he asked me how long I had been doing signwork. When I answered about 40 years he commented on the fact that I must have been around before computers. I did my best old man impression and related some of the classic stories of how we did it back in the old days.
He commented on how lucky he was to have started out with a computer because you didn't have to have any artistic ability and that making signs was really very easy - just plug in the words and stick on some vinyl. What did I do? Why, I just smiled my best smile, bid him a good day and went back across the street to my "little house on the prairie".
We will be friends, trade stories, and borrow stuff from each other, and I will send him some jobs occassionally. But I doubt that he will ever know the true joy that this profession holds.
------------------ Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas rchapman@vvm.com
Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I hope that I can be that composed when confronted with an attitude like that. One of my customers mocked me with a reply "All you have to do is hit a button on your computer". This was because I explained the process needed to complete a sign of theirs. No designer, fabricator, or thinking person needed. What's really shamefull in your instance is that it is coming from within our own "profession"
------------------
Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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If no value is perceived, no value paid for.
Even when painting, we all have tricks to make our work a lot easier, but the customer perceives what we do as magic. And is usually pays a lot more too. But If we all have the attitude like that new guy. Hell he is going to have a good time selling up.
Can't wait till he gets a call for a wall mural. heheheh
------------------ "Some people's kids"
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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You know, when ever I run into that sort of an attitude "just plug in the words in yer computer an stick on the vinul" I usually respond...If you buy a piano, does that make you a pianist?
posted
Hi Raymond. This guy sounds like a likely candidate to invite out to a real Letterheads Meet. I'd be willing to bet that the experience might just open his eyes, and also expand his mind a bit.When we're young, we tend to think that we have the world by the tail, and revel in what little knowledge that we then posess. Later, as we mature, we begin to realize just how little that we do actually know, and start trying to do something about the state of our ignorance.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.com
posted
Ray, I'm assuming the finished product he was installing matched his attitude - let me guess - white rectangular background, oversized red helvetica, no border, installed with duct tape and coat hangers. The worst part is, you have to look at it every day. I'm kidding, of course, but the new guy reminds me of a lady who goes to our church; she owns 2 FastSign franchises and I've tried for years to get her to read the sign mags, go to a letterhead meet, or at least drop in on this site. After seeing Superfrog's "airbrush" magic, I invited her to come by and learn some quick tricks that add value to a sign. All of this to no avail because she says her business is doing well and why offer "artsy" stuff when plain seems to suit her customers just fine. I finally saw the truth in this, and quit trying to "convert" her. Somebody has to produce the junk for tasteless, price-conscious bozos and I'm just glad it doesn't have to be me (usually) Still, I can't help but echo your sentiment: WHERE'S THE JOY?
------------------ Sonny Franks Sign Creations Lilburn, GA
"If you do what you've always done, you'll be what you've always been."
Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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The sad thing is......lots of people actually don't care if their sign is only helvetica medium. They want a simple cheap 'easy to read' sign. I know because last winter for the first time in 23 years, I went to work for another sign shop. (got divorced and had to)I was hoping to learn some new tricks. Anyways.....all this shop did was H E L V E T I C A . I couldn't stand it any longer and after 2 months I quit. When I walked out the door my arms were up in the air and I was yelling "YES!!" Let me tell you......I was so happy to be out of there!!! But my point is this......and it is not a good one.....franchise sign shops now seem to only pump out cheap helvetica signs. That must be what they teach them. Too bad for the world.
------------------ Cheryl Nordby "surf" signs by Cheryl! "surfsigns" a hop and skip from Seattle surfsigns@excite.com
posted
I remember when I was a kid growing up in the fruit belt of the northeast..they grow some of the finest apples ,cherries and grapes in this corner of the country.us kids all picked cherries by hand for summer work.Now they hook this gizmo to a tree,wrap a skirt around it near the ground and shake the life out of the tree til all the cherries fall off.. Does the consumer know or care how the friut was harvested?No..not as long as they get the cherries they want to eat!Some of the old varieties are gone...kinda like fonts... Same here..if someone is going to produce and sell industrial strength helvetica..then there will be someone who will buy it... As for me?.I am glad to have learned a fine trade and I am thankful for my loyal clients who want and appreciate quality work.... And as always Raymond..you responded to a situation as the true gentleman that you are.
posted
If all the franchise shops sell nothing but junk, all the better for those of us who know what we are doing, can demonstrate it, and charge accordingly. This guy will never be serious competion to Ray as long as he believes there's no skills involved.
And when he says business is "pouring in"...What kind of customers do you imagine are rushing out to buy cheap signs from someone with no skills? They are the people who cannot perceive the vallue of their image, in other words, the pain-in-the-neck bozos we neither want or need.
Every trade has its bottom-feeders. Why would we want to compete with them?
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
[This message has been edited by Cam Bortz (edited January 14, 2000).]
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I've got a better idea Raymond. One day, why not invite the guy over to your shop, as a friendly jesture, and I'm sure you've got some photos of your work nearby. Make sure he gets a good look at the stuff you turn out. After seeing that, and talking to you for a little while, he might just see what it's all about. I think he'll see that a computer and a cutter aren't the only things you need.
posted
Don't get the idea all of us "newbies" are like that! The more I work at this, the more I am in awe of a nicely crafted sign completed for a profit. One thing I've learned about life is the more you learn the more you realize you don't know and that is certainly true in this field. In another profession I used to have to suffer a real boob too but he sure made ME look good!
------------------ Rick Cooper Sierra Sign & Award Lake Tahoe, USA www.engrave.pctrader.com $$$Letterheads Website Supporter$$$
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Posts: 135 | From: Incline Village, NV, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
This reminds me of my first days in the business..I had gotten a job with a large advertising company and walk into the shop with a malt stick under my arm..The forman came over to me with a big smile on his face..I asked what was the first project he would like me to start on and his reply was,What's that thing you have..I said to him it was a Sign Painter Malt stick to help you paint you copy..He seem to have a puzzled look on his face and asked if he could have a look at it..Well thinking to myself I am showing him something new I handed it over with a smile on my face..It was a 3 foot wooden dowell with a rubber ball ending..He took it from my hand and immediately broke into two pieces and said you don't need that F---ing Cripple Crutch. From that day on I learn to be aware of new things in the business... Now as for your competition I guess he will always be leaning on His Cripple Crutch and you will get the cream of the pie jobs... Don't bother showing him anything because his attitude tells me that he's not interested in learning anything more that the computer crutch....
------------------ Raven/2000
Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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Thanks for reminding me why I remain self-employed. A foreman who would break any tool of mine on purpose, with that kind of attitude, would be undergoing surgery to have it removed from up his... you get the picture.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I wholeheartedly share your sentiment Cam, especially since I have that wonderful lightweight mahlstick that Pat King was mentioning in his last post.
Although I understand the underlying message of your reply Stephen, about crutches and all. I don't really understand why many consider the mahlstick a crutch. Nor the computer. I think of them only as tools that make things easier to accomplish.
Is a hammer a crutch?, ... a screwdriver? Or would tightening a screw with our teeth make us "better" crafters?
As for the initial post. I'm sure we can all share stories of our own about the type of person Raymond met. I get a kick out of reading other people's encounters like that. They used to make me frustrated and angry inside, now I just walk away feeling a twinge of sadness, but realize that we all pave our own way and reap the consequences of our thoughts and attitudes later. To each their own. This guy may find lasting happiness in his approach to his new found career choice, but unless a light comes on for him, I have my doubts.
Just adding a few more words on the subject. Nettie
------------------ "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
Start packing and move in! It's just too easy to be a Resident! Location, Location, Location! It's all right here! http://www.letterhead.com/supporters
Maybe you should keep a sort of friendship with this guy, show him what you do... then next time you get some customer that you really don't want to deal with, send them to him.... do this once or twice and he might get the idea that sign shops are pretty cool, and when someone comes in with some idea that he cannot do, he will remember seeing something like that at your place and send them your way.....
win/win
just a thought.
------------------ --If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.
Tony Potter Blind Mice and Company Knoxville, TN (865) 300-1175 www.blindmiceandcompany.com tonypotter@yahoo.com
posted
Nice post Ray,I admire your composer but I must agree the young man is a prime candidate for a letterhead meet why not invite him, to Fred's in March As for the references to helvetica I suspect the hatred for it is based on the fact that we used to have to do it by hand and it never was accepted well in a production shop because it took so long to create the letters as they were meant to be.Truth is it is probably the most versitile and legible of all letter styles(probably why it is so over used). And anyone that thinks a mahlstick is a crutch doesn't have a clue how to use one.
Just a few of my opinions here,thought I'd wade in late as usual.
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
posted
Hey all. I was driving thru "Letterville" in my new 'puter here and thought I'd like to add my two cents. When I first started lettering, I was taught to do everything manually. 'course, I had my tools to use, but I had to learn layout, design, colors, etc. thru trial and alotta error.Computers were just starting to get big and a lot of Speedy Sign Shops were starting to pop up.But one thing I noticed was some of the "real"sign shops were getting computers too.Now,whether in the hands of Joe Speedy or the sign painter, a computer is not gonna make or break a good sign.It is simply a tool and can only be as good as the person"pushing the buttons."Another good lesson I was taught is You get what you pay for.Personally, the customer who wants a down and dirty job is only willing to pay for down and dirty, regardless of what I need to do to make a down and dirty job.Well, we all know we still take some of those customers from time to time, but I'll be happy when I can send him over to Joe Speedy By the way, just wanna add there's some great work in the portfolios! A lotta talented peoplehere!
------------------ Bob Elliott SouthPaw Signs southpaw@pikeonline.net
Posts: 35 | From: Dingmans Ferry Pa. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Thank you for posting this incident. I have not had that experience per say, however, I did feel the impact of the computer world closing me out of business because all that I did was handpainted. Eventually, I bought a Gerber 4B with 4 fonts and people would still come to me to reproduce their artwork or logos they did not want to pay a setup fee for from a signshop and only wanted one of each, not quantity. I charged the same as the shops that had the software to do logos, but of course still felt underpaid and raised my prices. It wasn't until the vinyl industry got saturated that I got a yellow page ad that emphasized that handpainting and cartoons were available upon "request".
Curiosity was aroused and just as I thought, I received calls asking if I would do this special work ONLY if they asked. I took it one step further( because they asked) and added the fact that it was much higher priced than the vinyl art and if they paid me my price, and asked me to do it, if I had the time, I would love to do it. I never have any complaints when this time comes and find much more satisfaction in having the "chance" to educate individuals or businesses about the " blood, sweat, and tears" that it takes to render a work of love. Even if they don't go with the handpainting, I have almost always shared with the existence and novelty of the Letterheads organization. A lot of people are becoming interested in this. It has not only restored my hope that this form is back but gave me the opportunity to explain all the years of my life in staying with it. And people are listening and calling me. I now need to get to a MEET and learn more to offer them when they ask. Sincerely, Deb
P.S. The person that broke the mahlstick reminds me of someone who has never matured and maybe (nothing to do with signs) had a lot of jealousy and insecurity from childhood. I'm no Freud but it reminds me of some repressed childhood trauma on that person's part.
------------------ Deborah Fowler Creative Signs
Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
And if he is still in business does he have a MultiCam yet?
You don't need artisitc talent for one of them either... just type in the words and the 3D signs come out.
-grampa dan
[ October 17, 2005, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Pat..WHERE did you dig this particular thread up from??? And how the heck did you find it? And WHY??
And..YES...Raymond, is the guy still in business?
Edited to say...HEY.... EVERYONE still looks as young as they did 5 years ago too!!!!!!
Re-Edited to say that it's..GEEEEZ... almost 6 years ago!!!! (5 years and 10 months)
[ October 18, 2005, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Yes I would like to know too. It was a sad story, but it reminded me of Hymie out of "Get smart". You know how he would tweak his ear and the equation just came out his mouth, like typing letters and an instant sign.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Pat - I have no idea how you found this old post...or why, but it was nice to relive some of the responses. And it's been five years...wow, how time flies.
That young man has been a friend for the past five years. On occasion he has needed something at the last minute and I was always willing to help him out. One time he needed a gallon of background enamel and I had an extra one and sold it to him at my cost.
His work improved over time, but never was what I would call outstanding. It was good enough to take away some work for me, but that is what free enterprise is all about. There are a lot of 4' x 8' signs around here that he has done, some of which I probably would have done if it had not been for the extremely low prices that he charged.
He worked out of his home garage and did mostly smaller signs - mags, banners, etc. We would see each other from time to time and talk business. He admired our work and several times stated that he wanted to upgrade his work to do more of the "high end" stuff.
About six months ago he dropped by the studio with that gallon of background paint that he had never used. I offered to buy it back but he said it was a gift for helping him out. He was closing his shop and moving to Arizona to go into the real estate business.
He said that he just couldn't make a living here and that no one wanted to do really good work - they were just interested in a cheap price.
In the studio now is a 4' x 8' sign for a developer that used him for a number of years and that we had done work for before this gentleman came to town. He is paying considerably more now than what he had been paying, but commented on how the signs really never looked all that good. I never said anything negative about his former sign guy, but that we would provide him with a sign that would enhance his business.
Since he moved to Arizona there have been two more shops open in this area. As of yet I haven't met the owners of either one, but I will....and I will welcome them to the sign business.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Tell him he is K L E W L E S S. That really is sad, especially since he has NO respect for letterforms or a well designed sign. He won't be around for long tho Raymond, if he hasn't heard of you, he obviously hasn't done one second of homework and doesn't know a Stabillo from a Speedo.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Ricky...read the post! He's already gone - went into the real estate business.
As I travel around the country and do workshops I am continually amazed when I mention Letterheads, SignCraft, or some of the "famous" folks in our craft, and get a blank stare. What's even sadder is that they have no inclination to get to know any of the sources of inspiration.
At Letterhead gatherings there will be folks who travel thousands of miles and spend a small fortune to attend, when some of the local signmen will not bother to take an afternoon off to see what is going on. It's happened here and it happens at almost every meet.
At Gary Anderson's gathering there was a sign shop ACROSS THE STREET from the meeting and they didn't attend, even after having a personal invitation from Gary. Simply amazing.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Raymond, I like your attitude in the first post of this string and I like it in the last post.
It is nice to see that in the past five years, dealing with "competition" if you want to call it that, hasn't changed your outlook.
When I first stumbled across the Letterville site, I registered but didn't return very much for a year. My first "Letterhead" meet was the last few hours of the ND Graphics Roadshow in Regina, there were a bunch of people busy making letters for the building it was held in, they all seemed to be good friends and I felt a little intimidated, but after going home I went back to the Letterville site and found out more about them. It was all a very foreign concept to me and it took a while for me to absorb the concept that these really were people who cared about helping me to learn and grow. Now that I have met and become friends with so many "Letterheads" I realize what a gift this is. I think for so many it is intimidation and mistrust that keeps them away, and that each and every sign person that can be brought into the circle strengthens the whole. We really have to work on educating and embracing the newcomers in this field instead of passing them off as "lowballers" or "quicky stickies" or "talentless nothings".
I think your attitude is exemplary of what a true Letterhead is. We can learn much from it. Thank you.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Mr. Raymond, I was reading the first post without paying attention to the date. After I read it, I knew was going to reply by asking you to do one thing: To please let us know how long he lasts . . .
Then I continued to read some of the replies and realized when you wrote this.
I must say, I'm surprised he lasted 5 years . . . but, it really just proves again that this business is simply not for everyone.
What's really kind of sad, in a way, is that many people try a variety of careers and never find what is they are gifted to do. It's very good that some people do keep tryin' tho'. I hope your friend finds that job he's naturally made to do. Many of us are SO very blessed and fulfilled to be employeed in a career we're gifted and called to do.
BTW, Mr.Raymond, are there EVER any meets in the Dallas/Fort Worth area????
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I too am a newbie. When I purchased my shop from the previous owner, (it was in the rental shop that I managed and ended up running both shops!), the shop was a quicky stick shop. It did no real business because there was no desire do anything but quick over the counter easy signs. When I opened here I immediatly went to Atlantic City and Charlotte for sign shows. I learned a lot! In the past few years we have stayed with mostly over the counter signs, windows and replacement sign faces. The shop grows each and every year and each and every year I try something new! I'm learning this trade from the ground up, always looking at others work, dreaming of the day when I can produce signiture work like a sign shop in town, similar to Mr Chapman's shop. If it weren't for people like Mr Chapman giving of his time and knowledge so freely I wouldn't even have lasted this long. I have taken every class i can at Charlotte with him, his knowledge and willingness to teach anyone interested in learning is a wonderful find! Anyone who is just starting out, either painting or puter work, that has the desire to make a quality sign is ok in my book. I cannot compare my work to Mr Chapmans, or most of you on this board but I am trying. It pains me when I hear responses knocking newbies, they cannot handletter, do not paint, maybe layouts are not right and therefore are no good at making signs. That is not right or fair. Every town needs a quicky shop, and a Quality Studio. Mr. Chapmans example seemed to state the guy couldn't make it in hte end because no-one wanted to pay for higher quality signs, and inicated he was trying to go higher quality. He may not have been able to produce it yet but he saw the difference. I cannot produce most of the signs I see in the sign of the month posts, I dream of the day when I have the talent, but I don't have the talent now. Most of you didn't either! If someone tries to better themselves, then praises to them, if they don't, well let them alone! Let the person who has been a fantastic artist from day one cast the first disparaging remark! I don't see Mr Chapman saying mean spirited things here, nor Dan Swatsky or any of the other people I admire. Some are quick to post a rude remark. That is not a nice spirit, a sprirt of brotherhood in the paint or vinyl. I may get knocked for this post, so be it. I do not read a whole lot here because of some of hte negativity. I don't go to meets because of hearing how people talk here means they will do the same at meets. I have talent, it is growing, and do not want to get knocked by some of you before it can fully develop. While I'm on this subject, just how long did it take you all to become good? Good enough to maybe post for sign of the month? Good enough that you feel you can critisize anyone else without knowing them? I would love to know when I can feel good enough to critisize anyone, is there a magic sign that makes you good enough to have that power to kock anyone elses work? Everyone has produce ugly signs, some people just can't remember or won't admit it. I look back a few years ago and can't believe some of the hidious stuff I did and people paid for! I hope to one day join the ranks of great sign designers and makers, but hope I never feel I have the right to critisize anyone elses work as some on this board do. With that I shall post and let the chips fall where they will.
-------------------- Michael A Latham Tee's Me Shirt & Sign 16462 Jefferson Davis Highway Colonial Heights Va. 804-835-3299 signdogopie@aol.com Posts: 379 | From: Colonial Heights, Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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Go for it Bobbie, I'm sure it is a wonderful sign. I'm still looking for the time and talent to even try a gilded sign. One day I will!
-------------------- Michael A Latham Tee's Me Shirt & Sign 16462 Jefferson Davis Highway Colonial Heights Va. 804-835-3299 signdogopie@aol.com Posts: 379 | From: Colonial Heights, Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I have a friend who set up an ice cream shop. It was absolutely first class in every respect and was instantly successful. The owner was even making very good money from the very start. He was literally world famous for his wonderful icecream. While in fact, the icecream was pretty much what everybody else sold, he did it with a wonderful style and was able to charge a premium price because of that.
It didn't take long until others in our small town took notice... and got the original idea to open one of their own - just down the street. There was even more than one for a while... how hard could it be to scoop icecream and rake in some of that instant cash that my friend was obviously making?
But there was a major difference in what they offered, and I'm not talking about icecream. The new places were just holes in the wall with a freezer and didn't compare to the well thought out experience my friend was offering. While the competition scooped icecream into a cone, my friend created wonderful confectionary concoctions in a theme environment. Inside and outside of his store was simply another world. Buying icecream there was a WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE!
He would have done well to mind his own busines and to concentrate on making it even better, but sadly he spent his time fretting and worrying about the other guys. He started price checking, and spent much of his time down the street in front of their shops. While he was gone his store didn't run the same.
He got discouraged and his business showed it in the way it was run. He eventually sold out, giving up on his dream in the process, He went back to the dreary life of being a telephone repairman.
I know we don't sell icecream, but the true story I tell above works the same in our business.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Bobbie Rochow: You know, Michael, I was afraid to post my first gilded sign pics, but since you just said all that, I think i might just give it a try!
Thanks!
You do damn nice work, Bobbie. Don't ever doubt that. You've definitely got "the gift"!And what was cool to see from the privilege of thumbing through your portfolio, is that you haven't peaked. Every page was better than the last.
posted
Michael, We all started somewhere. The difference (to me) about being a Letterhead is that I CARE about signs...about what makes them work (or not) I did not just go out and buy a plotter, as the man in Raymond's story did, so I could type in words and puke out signs. I started out many years ago, an artist, knowing nothing about layout or design, just colors. It's taken years for me to learn what I know. I am still learning every day, and I still think my work stinks. I hope I am not one of those to whom you refer. When I am critical, I try to be helpful as well. Yes, sometimes I have been snotty to those whom I felt had forgotten to leave their egos at the door. I post my own work altho it will never equal that of my heroes. But I'm trying! I guess what I mean to say is that how we act on here is never how we act at a meet. Most of the squeaky wheels in Letterville have never even attended one. I am gradually being run out of business by licky-stickies. I refuse to die. I am the only one around here who paints, and it is a joy to me to get to paint a sign. Let them TRY to do what I do....I don't think so. Not gonna let em beat me down. And you shouldn't be afraid to post your words OR works here. Love......Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Micheal....you have some serious misconceptions!
You want to get better...get yerself to a Meet or 2 or more! No one belittles you at a meet!!!! You will find everyone helpful, giving out tips, tricks, layouts, techniques, etc! Everyone learns something new at every meet!
In over 25 years of attending meets, shows and gatherings, I have only seen one instance of someone badmouthing others! And he was quickly escorted outside and told not to come back!
The rule at meets is Leave your ego outside the door!
Like you and everyone else...some of my first jobs were just plain ugly! BUT with practice, reading the trade mags, going to meets, I gradually got better...and someday I might even get good!
Next thing you have to do is to learn to ignore the a*holes on this board that love to criticize everyone! They are not unique to this place....every bullboard seems to have some!
Just my 2¢!
PS...some day I will learn to proofread before I hit "Enter"
[ October 18, 2005, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
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Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Michael, you're right - we all stunk in the very beginning. Even now, 32 years after I got into it, I still am not satisfied with my work. I look at the incredible designs in the magazines and wish that I could reach that level of skill. But something Butch Anton said around the campfire at the Maritime Meet last year helped put it all in perspective: you don't have to be the best in the world, just be the best in your particular market. That's attainable, unless you live in Gary Anderson's hometown........
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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