posted
That is very cool! I was just in Deadwood SD the other day and there is alot of that kinda stuff up there, not that old though. The 1864 wouldn't necssarily date it though would it? I've got a couple of old school desks with a 19th century date cast into the legs.
-------------------- "B0LT" on the chat room thing.
posted
I can't believe that some cities and towns don't revive these ghosts. Our downtown has many fine new murals, but a Coca-Cola sign in repairable shape goes untouched.
posted
i love old signs. the idea that in those days they had the skills to climb the side of a building without modern conveniences and do this is amazing. jill is planning on murals at the international meet at Mars. it is a quaint old town that anyone would fall in love with. the buildings are crying for this style of art. thanks for the memory.fiddles.
-------------------- Faye Welsh (fiddles) 4848 cherry street allison park, pa. 15101 fiddles51@yahoo.com Posts: 259 | From: 4848 Cherry St. Allison Park,Pa. 15101 | Registered: Dec 2001
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You're probably correct with the date. Although Most of these buildings and the companies were a product of the 1800's. I'm now interested in finding out the history of this company.
Here's another of the side of the building!
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Faye,...many of us still do this type of work,....lots of times the most modern technology used is a safety harness,...the rest hasn't changed much.It's more practical and safer to use a lift to rig the walls these days but on walls under 4 stories it is still alot more economical to use the swing stage of years past.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Regarding Ghost Signs...I've got a book here that's published by Signs of the Times in '89. Titled:Ghost Signs - Brick wall Signs in America by Wm.Stage ISBN:0-911380-84-1 Wonderful book, lots of pictures and words, old shops & Signpainters.The Mail Pouch wall,p67, Jacksonville, Ore....recognized it, I had taken a picture of it on a trip to Ashland in '95 or so. Such a good book, i bought 2, gave other to old sign painting friend. I'm sure it's out of print, but www.abebooks.com can find anything!,probably lots o originals of Lincoln's G'burg address,too.
John / Big Top
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006
Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
I picked up Bill Stage's book a few years ago at a meet somewhere. Not just photos, but some terrific social history of the signs in context of the times, and the men who painted them. Great, great book. Given the age of some of the mill structures of New England, it really COULD be that old. It's not impossible to consider that a north-facing wall would still be legible after almost 140 years.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
.....that, and the fact that it could have been refurbished time and time again since its first publishing.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Possibly... but I doubt it. Most businesses have to be coaxed into maintaining signs that are easily accessible(and this sure isn't!); obviously the original - whenever it was done - was clearly legible throughout the life of the company. Given its condition now, I'd put good money down that this wall was not repainted anytime in the past 75 years. Bob, do you have any history on the Heywood Shoe & Boot Company?
[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Cam Bortz ]
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Was it customary at that time to include the date the company was founded when the company was new? Often, a company will use the date founded to show how well-established they are, so that particularly sign may not have been done until a few decades later when the date founded would have impact. Even so, it's probably still pretty old. It would be interesting from a historical perspective, though, to know what the practices were at that time.
posted
I am familiar with that building, but know nothing of the original Heywood Shoe Co. I know that a few years ago, they were renting some of the space as a craft co-op. Worcester has revived some old buildings in the past few years, so maybe this is on the list. Hey Bob........when you get the job to restore the lettering don't forget to call me to help.
[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Kelly ]
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Check out some of this vague info I found in a search on Mass history on the Web.
quote:The late 19th century was the state's greatest industrial period. Massachusetts was a national leader in the production not only of textiles and shoes but also of textile and shoemaking mach inery, silverware, machine tools, glass, paper, rubber products, locomotives, guns, and fire en gines. From 1900 to 1910, however, many factories, which had become increasingly obsolescent, closed. Textile companies established new mills and new corporate headquarters in the southern states. The tenements of the mill cities were aging and unable to meet the most modest health and building standards.
Service industries, however, were beginning to assume a new role in the Massachusetts economy. Banking and insurance, important in the era of industrial expansion and transportation growth,reached out for new markets in the West. Retailing and wholesaling expanded to serve the new urban populations. Many office and clerical jobs were created in cities like Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.
The Depression of the 1930s was especially severe in those communities already hard hit by the closing of textile and shoe factories. World War II temporarily reversed this trend ans the state became a leading producer of war materials. The traditional industries of shipbuilding and machinery were greatly expanded, along with local development of new products such as radar, sonar, and jet engines.
Even if we assume it was repainted in the latest time period the 30's. That still puts this sign @70 plus years old.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sorry having technical difficulties posting the photo, see below
[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: FranCisco Vargas ]
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: FranCisco Vargas ]
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
WOW, thanks Bob, I couldn't figure how to post them, one minute, one was on. The next time I tried to do a copy and paste of the address, both were gone. I was ready to give up, taking to much time finally I made an album were to post them. Glad you enjoyed em. I have to be gone for a day or two, when I get back I'll throw a few more up. if you guys want to see a few more?
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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If anyone was following or interested in the history of this building, I got a call from the historical museum today.
It seems as if Heywood started a shoe business with a man named Houghten ( sp ) in 1863, in 1864 they moved to this building, in 1867 they dissolved the partnership and Heywood went forward on his own. In 1887 they incorperated as Heywood Boot & Shoe company. Somewhere around 1914 they celebrated their 50th Anniversary. Not much info was found between then and the 1950's. In the 1950's they were running as a shoe store only, then closed.
Cam made a good point that it probably was not repainted in the 50's as the industry was gone and they probably did not have the funds or the reason to redo it.
still a real good test of time.
Anyone up for a repaint?
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It doesn't look like this wall is going anywhere... but anyone contemplating a repaint will need to be familiar with working high, off a swing stage. Not me, thank you! Yesterday on the phone Bob and I discussed whether the wall had ever been repainted. I'm guessing it wasn't. A mill like that represents a heavy capital investment, so its likely that HS&B Co. would have started manufacturing elsewhere, and put up or purchased this mill a bit later.
The date is significant. In 1864 the Civil War was going on, and lots of textile and shoe companies in New England were founded on military contracts for uniforms and boots. Heywood's partner may well have been someone who had access to obtaining such a contract; by 1867 the war was over and army contracts would have dried up, and with it, the need for a politically connected partner. I'd guess that since the partner's name is NOT on the sign, that the sign was done after 1867.
The shoe industry in New England was already dying out by the time the US entered WWI in 1917. Another Army contract might have kept them going into the Twenties, but whatever shoe and textile firms had survived that long were killed off by the Depression. A lot of changes in the labor market - unions, the restriction of immigration (the majority of mill workers were immigrants) had driven these companies out of business, or to move to the South. Of course, all of this is conjecture in regards to the actual history of this particular firm.
What's all this have to do with the sign? I'm thinking that HB&S was very likely struggling, financially, by the turn of the century. The sign up on the wall was still quite legible, so there wasn't a lot of incentive to pay for a repaint. Other problems would have taken precedence. Based on this scenario, the fact that the sign was on the North wall and got very little sunlight (a big factor in fading) and that only two colors, black and white, were used (or at least are still visible), I'm guessing this sign may well date from the 1870's or 1880's.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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