There's an interesting new independent movie out called "Blue Vinyl" that might be worth seeking out.

According to the reviews, it's done in a humorous way being "important, funny, and beautifully shot..."

Now you may regard this as being a wet blanket, but I think we need to know this stuff, so here's the plot outline= "The hazards of bio-accumulation, pollution, & the make-up of what we commonly hope are benign plastics are tackled..."

How can the "hazards of bio-accumulation", etc be funny? Guess you'll have to see to find out.

Hey Glenn, you know a lot of stuff--what can you tell us about the carcinogenic nature of the vinyl we work with every day?

Now, I'm not a computer guy, so I don't know where to look this up, BUT--I have seen research that proves (this is from memory, OK?) that vinyl gases off dioxin, a known cancer causing toxin. It was proven (Hey, Glenn--PROVEN...) that this stuff got into the water in the everglades and they found that alligators were being born mal-formed as a result, with smaller male sex organs and also with both sex organs in one critter (maybe this explains some of the behavior we see in Florida?). Also, every living organism has some degree of dioxin contamination in it--that includes us!!

Plus, what other evil crap is it we are breathing that gasses off from vinyl every day? MMM, smells GREAT, huh? And of course when the stuff is burned it releases a whole new set of vile, man-made chemicals--wonder what's released when we take a heat-gun to remove old lettering. I doubt a face mask is of much use here, either.

Guess we better get that movie, EH?

Challenge? Heavens no!! I'm just hoping you'll put to use your highly proclaimed research capabilities to help us common folk understand the full danger of the carcinogenic, cancer-causing effects of the toxic vinyl we work with every day. Now if it takes a challenge to motivate you, then I challenge you to find out the health risks of vinyl--so there!

I want a written report on my desk by morning...

Oh, and does anyone know where we can get that movie? Remember, "Blue Vinyl"?

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0303307#comment

Note that the description says "Judith suspects..."

Many things in our homes will give off toxic gasses if burned. I seriously doubt that pvc outgasses anything toxic in everyday use.

If you are ready for a snooze, here is something more highbrow
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&doc=MEMO/00/46|0|RAPID&lg=EN

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: VICTORGEORGIOU ]

ahh, those heat-released vile man-made chemicals!

Why do you think they call us ThermalHeads!

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]

oh what do you do with the skins from your paint cans?

where does the hair from your brush come from ...do they shave those little buggers or what?

what about the sand from your baster were does it go?

oh... and i think we already disscussed the pressure treated lumber issue...tooth pick anyone.

there is more fertillizer and industrial tocsins(sp) that are dummped in the water acquafers that we can care to talk about.ever lived by a paper manufacturing plant! what about the air you breath then you get to walk inside to a sealed building that recicals the same batteria infected air.

My wife is allergic to a whole host of issues - cats, dogs, perfumes in detergents, chemicals used in carpets - just all sorts of things.

I have an 80+ year old grandfather who has smoked unfiltered Lucky Strikes all of his life and he's fine - no cancer or anything. I wouldn't put him in to run a marathon, but he still runs his cabinet shop next door to his house and continues works a full schedule.

My sister, who doesn't smoke or drink, just had a cancer scare last week. It turned out that one of the lobes in one of her lungs collapsed. The thought is that her lungs may have been damaged in some way when she had Scarlet Fever some 30 years ago.

Well, personally I really don't care if all you other wizenheimers want to kill yourselves with what you eat, drink, and breath--I am more selfishly concerned about my own health, thank you. I've heard that due to our careless and thoughtless abuse of chemicals that we are about 50 years from total destruction of our eco-system, so I guess you nay-sayers don't care about the world your children or grandchildren will inherit.

Yeah, and look what paint fumes do to your spelling abilities--there are quite a few people here who apparently don't know that a dictionary is not something you use as a coaster for your beer cans or as a footstool.

You know there's a reason paint companies are required to give you Material Safety Data Sheets--any of you yahoos ever read one of those? "PROVEN TO CAUSE CANCER IN LABORATORY ANIMALS" is one of my favorites. And you are supposed to file a copy of that data with your local fire department too, by the way, so that when you're all paint-buzzed and drop your "hand-rolled' cigarette into the solvent drum, the fire dept. knows how to deal with the toxic cloud that threatens your unsuspecting neighbors.

It is the selfish arrogance and greed-based stupidity displayed by some in our industry, who through their own willful ignorance are destroying our planet. Find alternatives to the chemicals being foisted upon us, create new ways to make things. We are awash in deadly chemicals.

As I said earlier, I don't care what you do to yourself, but maybe you want to think about your children and whether or not they will even have a future.

Scotchlite has:
1. ethel acetate
2. heptane

Scotchcal has:
1. ethel acetate
2. heptane
3. acetone
4. toluene
5. isopropanol
6. xylene
7. diisobutyl ketone
8. methyl ethyl ketone
9. butanol
10. isobutanol
11. medium alihatic solvent naphtha

(Ever wonder why sign makers smile so much?)

3M stated at the bottom of the list - "We would expect these to be removed during the manufacturing process and be emitted by the time the arrive at the customer's site." I don't see how they possibly could be on rolled goods.

Thank you for that list of chemicals, I think this should give us some serious concerns as every one of those chemicals is harmful to humans in some way or another.

People may wonder why I rant and rave the way I do here--I had to quit the sign biz entirely a year or two ago due to a near-fatal on the job toxic poisoning I had in Decenber of '96. Even after nearly dying I still tried to stay in signs by brokering my own work, but the off-gassing of materials proved to be too much. And last year I went to the Milwaukee panel jam for about 5 or 6 hours--was seriously messed up for two days afterward, just from the fumes!

See, my deal was that I was lettering two trucks and a trailer in an insulated pole barn, with paint of course cuz I never liked vinyl. The building was heated with one of those jet-engine type space heaters, only I was too stupid to know you need lots of fresh air circulating with that kind of set up, and nobody told me otherwise. So you got your thick paint fumes and then you got your space heater sucking all the oxygen out of the remaining air--I kept turning up the heater cuz it was sputtering, it couldn't breathe either! I worked there about a week and I think the only reason I lived was cuz I went out to my truck for lunch every day--got some air don't you know. When I was done I collapsed with a 102 degree fever and was in a delerium for a month, not knowing where I was. I have been trying to regain body function and thinking abilities since then and only since totally getting away from all sign things a year or so ago have I been able to rebuild my shattered body.

So, ridicule all you want--I've got a space heater I want to loan ya!!

No matter how "safe" any chemical is, there will be people who have allergic reactions, and these people just have to stay away from those chemicals.

My younger son, in his first job out of college, collapsed on the job and almost died before they got him stabilized. He was in intensive care for a week. The toxic chemical? Red and yellow food dye that all of us eat every day. Needless to say, he does not work around food dye anymore.

My point is, we all know lacquer thinner and other shop chemicals can be toxic, and we do have to read the labels and show proper respect in handling them.

quote:

---

Yeah, and look what paint fumes do to your spelling abilities--there are quite a few people here who apparently don't know that a dictionary is not something you use as a coaster for your beer cans or as a footstool

---

please forgive me...i have dyslexia and have always struggled with spelling.i seem to spend more time in the dictionary than writing some times..oh i don't smoke or drink alcohol(sp)

it was a wrong of me to poke fun at this issue..but I AM in agreement with your statement and agree with you fully. we as a people have no care for the world that we live in. i stuggle with the throw away society that we live in.i stuggle with this toxic world that we live,not just in this single industry but in our home life. ever look in the can at what you are throwing away...look under your sink at all the cleaning products that we use, how about your washing machine pumping all that soap in to the ground..what about the shampoo you use, most are petrolium based. do we concider how all these thing are made or how we dispose of them! what about the polyester(sp)blend clothing that we where!oh... and the soda bottle that you drink out of...where do you put it when your done.

i am sorry about your condition... but have to wounder has this been your stance before or after your accident.

all paint products and keroseen heater all say use in well ventilated area!

Do you or are you letting your voice be heard to the people in whom you are angry or who can change the problems..or are you willing to join an organization to help in the care of our world that we are passing down to our children.

i was told as a young man by my father if you don't vote you can't complain about what the government is doing!and if you do vote and are not seeing results, get involved!

Is huffing vinyl fumes what turned yer hair pink? Just kidding, I know it's really from sticking your head into a bucket of one-shot magenta!!

Seriously, anybody out there know where we can find a copy of that movie "Blue Vinyl"? Who knows, it may end up being a high camp cult classic for sign folk the way "the Rocky Horror Picture Show" was for gay people...hey, maybe vinyl itself turns you gay!!!!!

[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]

For example, here's the MSDS for Gerber/3M 220 Series Scotchcal MSDS for Gerber/3M 220 Series Scotchcal

Don't take my word for it (I'm no expert) but it doesn't look at all dangerous to me.

You can put a lid on a can of paint. Vinyl makes my head hurt.

Glenn,

I moved into a house with vinyl siding and all new materials. The cancer kicked in again. Stepping over it for the last time, I hope! My hair isn't teal, but it's not all quite grown back out either, hehehe!

Bill,

Why don't you show Chris Lovelady your site with the environmental cartoons. After seeing those, I realized, there's not a lot of pure things on this planet anymore. I was saddened greatly.

Try sompn guys, go outside and take a handful of dirt in the ground. As you let it sift through your fingers, know it's been here on this planet since the earth began. That'll make ya feel like as small as a grain of dirt yerself.

Then watch a big pile of it get moved and understand how, when it's all going in the same direction, it really makes a statement.

People go to school to learn how to create things with chemicals...this creates jobs and sometimes you don't lose your kidney to aid a sniffle...however.

What will we do to make sure those chemicals don't take us out? The water is fried, tap water (city water) is perty lethal in my parts. The whole month of August (my birthday, even) we have to stay inside, with the controlled climate equipment workin it's magic...bleche. It's too dangerous to go outside.

Bill, somebody as compassionate as you are about where our orb is heading, should not have to stand with his back to a wall!

I agree with the above, yelling won't make it better, but standing tall with your beliefs and educating others is supported!

Thanks for your kind words--it's good to know that others are listening. Maybe I get a bit strong in my statements sometimes though and maybe you are onto something...the other day my adopted brother, a traditional healer, gave me a copy of Norman Vincent Peale's "The Power of Positive thinking"!!! Is there a fine line between negative thinking and shouting out a warning? Guess I'll have to read the #%!! book to find out, Haha!

Really though, we are awash in deadly chemicals that we have no reason to use--I'm just trying to alert people to the gravity of the situation. We have strayed a far distance from our place in the circle of life and our duty to protect and honor the Earth.

And I think I can relate to your having cancer--congratulations on being alive, hey!! Both my parents died from cancers, and I was at their sides til the end in each case. This may be another reason I get snippy about sucking up the worlds' resources just so we can pig out on twinkies and Pepsi while spewing pollution out of our SUV's on our way to get another pack of cigarettes at the quickie mart in our sprawling, environmentally destructive suburbs!!! Well, that should crank up a few people, eh?

Really, I'm a nice guy--honest!!

The next paragraph refers to us yahoo's.

Don't you hate arrogant people who hurl insults while sending the same people on a mission to find something they can't find on thier own?

Kinda like sending the dog out the door for the morning paper, and kicking it in the ass as it passes by to do the work.

Don't you? Perhaps you could clarify what you are saying to me--I've lost quite a few brain cells from 30 years of sucking fumes and don't always hear what people are telling me.

Good one!! But what happened to fumes from likker & alkyhol?

My point before to Mike was that I'm not exactly sure of what he's telling me, and foolish me, I tried to diffuse the situation with some self-deprecating humor. Sounded to me like he was taking some of my subtly humorous (or so I thought...) statements kinda personal-like. Hey, I'm just trying to "create a dialog" through the vehicle of my obnoxious ranting and raving (as some might see it), but if the shoe fits, Mike, you know where to put it, man!!

I was wrong to say you were incorrect to infer that many here are yahoos and don't know what the dictionary is for. With all the beer cans laying around it's a wonder I can even find this keyboard.

Keep up the great posts Wm.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Mikes Mischeif ]