posted
Well first, let me say THANKS to all of you who shared with me: humor, intellect, consideration, experience, and warmth, I have truly enjoyed the "on line" friendships, and associations I have found here.
I appreciate the help, information, and caring, and hope I gave some of the above back to you.
My decision to terminate my visits and "merchant status" here is based on a situation that has come up several times in the last year. I feel there are a small number of folks who don't look at "the big picture" here in Letterville, but yet they group together and seem to have some mystical power over ethical and adult behavior. Some are allowed the privilege of harassing on this site without recourse, while others are chastised for they're attempts to defend themselves.
I speak not only of myself but several others of which only 2 still remain (that I am aware of), most of these folks chose to disassociate.
I have stated these concerns and my decision to Steve Shortreed, and below I have a few quotes, some good some not so good. I thank you for your interest! The following is in regard to statements and comments from "do you really understand Songpainter??" Just some things to ponder!!
"16 requests in 45 days from a community of 7000 regeistered shops and a several hundred thousand sign shops in the world that regularly lurk here is a huge slap in the face to those that have worked so hard. By not responding, the message is loud and clear." -Dave Draper
"We even have shops that ask us to send them a CD and "invoice" them. When someone asks that among other things, we know there is a misconception of what Songpainter is and what we are doing." -Dave Draper
"Roger, negative? not really, at least not intentionally. Delicate, yes." -Joe Rees
"I'm a bit put-off by the whole attitude of shoving it down our throats." -Kissymatina
"I can see trying to push the CD but one can push too hard to the point where you don't want to buy one just out of spite. Guilt and shame are not a good way to sell your product. Neither is blatant pushing of it in unrelated topics. It just gets really old." -Bruce Bowers
"as far as you who are put off and feel they have been "reprimanded" or something has been shoved down their throats, so what? get a life!" -Mark Fair Signs
"I just took the liberty of editing one post and deleting a couple others." -Steve Shortreed
If anyone needs advice or help in general, feel free to contact me.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532
posted
Wow! I'm not sure what to say yet, but I guess I missed some upsetting posts. I've seen the very rare disrespect of your product Roger, & always a very professional reply, but is it disrespect of Songpainter that has become the last straw for you? Or is that just an impartial example of dis-respect in general?
how does it go... "This too shall pass" Hope to see you around still.
posted
Doug, thank you, and yes, I'm sure you and I will share a story or two in the future. I will get back to Maui in the comming months, and will look you up!!
Yes again, just an example of disrespect(but not so much for my product as for my opinion)And others. Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532
posted
Roger.. I am sad to see you go, but hope that you will still stay in contact with me. I hope you don't see me as any of the "warring factions" I try to stay away from posts in which people will flame me, and have ever spoken up once, to argue my point.. I perfer not to stir. As I said, please keep in touch.. would love to hear from you occasionally.. do not regularly reply to your posts on your product, as I know nothing about it.. but have enjoyed your posts over the time you have been here. Be well. From Katie
-------------------- From Kat Johnston (previously Katie Wright, for those who can remember that far back) Posts: 530 | From: Brisbane, Australia | Registered: Feb 1999
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I think its a shame that you are leaving here, I think you should ride out the crap and think about the benefits. I know you have helped alot of people here, and promoted a good product too.
I think you Howard Keiper and Jim Doggett have all been great at getting involved here, and that side will be missed. I think you have also shown a good spirit in getting involved in all types of posts not just Rapid products posts.
I hope you get some positive response here and reconsider. I have been here since 96 and have seen lots of people come and go, lots of egotistical assholes....but the world is full of all sorts not just here at letterville.
I commentéd too on the Songpainter post....just because I think some of the negativity towards what Dave was doing was uncalled for, even if his methods didn't appeal to everyone. He is just trying to get over to as many as possible in whatever way he can.
My only beef with you Roger is that I entered your contest last May time for your T shirt design, my entry went in on time, and was displayed on your website. But I never recieved the promised gallon of Rapid Tac or a T-shirt. I mailed you last summer, I brought it up again end of last year, I mailed your office a week ago, and have never heard back.
I have hundreds of T-shirts from my days in the music business, and I can live without a gallon of Rapid Tac....but that was the deal when we entered the contest. I have tried quite hard with several suppliers to get someone here to take on your products, as yet without success.
I have recently started buying window tint from a new supplier, and in there products catalogue they list Rapid Remover! I called and asked where it comes from and they said they were supplied direct from their suppliers in the US (sunfilm products). I asked about Rapid Tac but they use something called Ultra Bond is that anything to do with you?
I wish you well...and hope you hang around, if not as a merchant or resident, at least in "lurker" mode.
I wish you wouldn't leave and I don't think you should. I'd miss you for one thing. The other is that if you believe in something, you should stand up for it. I know you believe in your products. So do I. I've learned a lot from you and you've been extremely helpful in providing education to some of my clients although you are not aware of it.
I'd don't know what was said that would make you come to your decision, and frankly, its no one's business but your own. I wish you'd reconsider.
posted
Hey Rodger Stick around,we would miss you here. Don't worry about some of the stuff going on here,on the hole this is a great place tho do I hardly ever get even an answer to ay of my post,there for I hardly ever get involved in any discussions hereafter 40 years in the business have learned that there are all kinds out there. Stick around. Ernie
-------------------- Ernest Clark Dahlonega Sign Co. 101 Whispering Winds Dr Murrayville,Ga 30564 Been there, Done that, Probably do it again. Posts: 134 | From: Dahlonega,Ga. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Please stick around with us, especially for Steve & Barb's sake. They bust their buns keeping this place going. Finding merchants is tough, and I think we are especially lucky to find some that not only financially contributes to the site, but personally as well.
I know for a FACT that there are others LURKING out there that sell products that would do just fine being a merchant here, but blatantly choose not to. (Gee it has been a long time since I ****ed those guys off, huh Steve?? )
I think it's about time to have a TIME-OUT on the playground, kids.
Not like Steve & Barb need MORE stress in their lives... here's a loaded gun... why wait until the next heart attack??!!
Geeesh everyone, REALLY!!!
Look, it's not that we don't appreciate the time and effort that was put into the cd. When people make the decision to take something like this on, treat it like you would your business.
The people who worked really hard and put in a part of their own heart on the songs for the cd... THANK YOU. The people who put aside time in their business to produce the cd... THANK YOU.
But maybe Dave should put this all in the business perspective. Maybe he can do this...
If he has a problem with the physical costs of the physical items used, keep his receipts (for the cds, cases, postage). Send them to Steve & Barb. Have everyone send the $$ also to Steve & Barb. Have the physical costs reimbursed, with the remainder staying right where it was meant to go in the first place.
Those that donated... DONATED. Period. Huge pats and the back and appreciation given. Honest.
But also realize that some people aren't going to leap into action immediately. It's alot easier to sit down and type encouraging words, than to fork out the dough. They will sell. Make the info available, but don't drown everyone in it. Kinda like the song that sounded great... the first 23 times you heard it...
Geez, to jeopardize the hard work and general health of a couple of really awesome people because the kids can't play nice on the playground. C'mon people!!
Take a rest. Eat some chocolate (works for me). Hug your kid. Pet your dog. Sit back and relax a day. Appreciate your health. Say THANK YOU to someone.
Just please, don't take it out here. You're hurting more than just yourselves.
Ok... COLLECTIVE **BIG DEEP BREATH**
-------------------- Dana Ferry St Cloud, MN
Posts: 1556 | From: St Cloud, MN | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Roger, I also have enjoyed your posts. People in general can be sooo hurtful.....it's a sad fact of life! I guess it all comes down to personal values and morals. Do what is right for you but I hope you hang around.
-------------------- Linda Seymour Bundaberg, Q.L.D Australia
"DARE!" Signage of Distinction Bundaberg freeloner2001@dingoblue.net.au Posts: 94 | From: Q.L.D Australia | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Roger, I agree with Henry. If we all only listened to the NEGATIVE feedback, then
The USA would still be a Crown Colony... Einstein would have been packing groceries... We would have to rely on the government to invent things... The moon landings would still be a dream..(AND STILL ARE TO SOME PEOPLE) The Wright brothers would be...just another pair of close brothers... etc.
A friend of mine once said if you are running fast enough you will just skate right over the crap...
Get what I'm saying? It only means they win if you back out now. Why give them the ability to affect you that much? The only critics I listen to are ones that offer a solution...otherwise it's cynicism, not criticism.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you
posted
Hi Roger It is disappointing to read that you are leaving the letterhead web site. There is one thing that I would like to point out to you before you go. When our company started in the vinyl industry 4 years ago your product was not available in Halifax at any of our suppliers. It was this web site and your suggestions on the use of your product that brought your product to our area. Not only mine but other sign shops in the area. In fact a couple of suppliers dropped their other product and we now use Rapid products. What is to stop someone else from doing the same thing to you. They simply register and explain their product to us, by getting actively involved. Like anything else "new and improved works. To let a couple of poorly chosen words upset you could slowly eat at why you are here. A business and person that cares about it's customers. Good luck in any case.
-------------------- Kevin Landry KnL Signs Halifax NS Posts: 314 | From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I saw the post before it was edited. I have lost a little respect for one of the partys involved. If what you say is true I respect your dissision to leave but wish you wouldnt.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Roger, I agree with Henry. If we all only listened to the NEGATIVE feedback, then
The USA would still be a Crown Colony... Einstein would have been packing groceries... We would have to rely on the government to invent things... The moon landings would still be a dream..(AND STILL ARE TO SOME PEOPLE) The Wright brothers would be...just another pair of close brothers... etc.
A friend of mine once said if you are running fast enough you will just skate right over the crap...
Get what I'm saying? It only means they win if you back out now. Why give them the ability to affect you that much? The only critics I listen to are ones that offer a solution...otherwise it's cynicism, not criticism.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you
posted
Roger, I consider your products and your marketing of those products to be an example of sound business ethic. You stand behind your product personally. You tout its use at every opportunity. You offer samples. You have high personal integrety. You know your target market.
posted
Roger, I for one either missed the post in question, or I "scanned" right thru it......And whatever your decision is , I will respect it. But as one "Hotrodder" to another......(Take it like a bad Club meeting) and disregard the same..Stay with us..you will be surely missed by MANY..... You have Great Products.......don't give up the opportunity to keep them in front of your buying public !!!! Especially with the introduction of a NEW Product....."Grafitti Removal"........ (Just open a can of this stuff and poar it on the Negative responses) he he he he Shep'
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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Sorry to see you go, but I can understand your frustration. I may take a powder myself one day soon.
I didn't see the offending post(s), but I imagine it was more "shoot from the lip" from the usual suspects.
It seems to me, that deleting some of these posts only serves to protect the knuckleheads from the well deserved scorn that they would receive from the more respectful and even-tempered users of this board.
A case in point: Joe's Us & Them thread was pulled in it's entirety because of a couple inappropriate posts towards the end.
Personally, I felt that Pierre and Rosemary handled the situation quite nicely. And no good purpose was served by the deletion of the topic.
In my opinion, a post should be removed only if it is truly profane, or if it holds another person up to ridicule or embarassment.
Why should a loud mouthed malcontent be protected from his own inability to think before posting? Let him have to look at the mess he has made, rather than cleaning it up for him.
Best of luck to you Roger, you've been one of the good guys.
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
Instagram: Purcell Woodcraft
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident
Posts: 902 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Rapid Roger, slow down. A definition for maturity that has made much sense to me involves "producing more than consuming." Over the years here you have given knowledge, training, product, inspiration, and friendship. Throw in some whit and humor and personality and a few other qualities too. You've heard our problems and designed products to suit our needs. You've given here far more than you've ever tried to receive. There are probably more folks than myself that have quietly come to depend on you for quick answers and product solutions (pun intended). I don't know how it will occur, but I'd like the relationship to continue, and if not on this board, somewhere.
Thank you for the years of participation in my life.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Sorry that you feel the need to withdraw from this forum. I my self have been in a simular place a number of years ago on a RSN bulletin board. I with drew for a time but as time went on I realized what I had known all along. Life ain' always fair and there is no such thing as "true" equalality. I hope in the future you will rejoin us and share your thought and knowledge. I have enjoyed all you have shared, even though my time in Letterville has been short. Good luck and take care!
posted
Roger, I have only been in town for a few months....I'm sitting at my first pc and I'm just learnin my way aruond. I haven't gotten to know too many folks here but I have enjoyed the give and take between some really experienced pros and their willingness to share not only their experience but their opinions as well. However, your post here gives me pause...I am now working on an arrangement to represent a company to bring a new product to the industry....I thought that this would be the ideal place to give it the real UL test. I have even spoken to Steve and Barb about terms etc. Because I am personally going to put myself in front of this product I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going to come under attack as you have described above. I hope you are still up for one more post to advise me. Otherwise, Be Well! Do Good Work! and Keep In Touch.....Joe, Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Not the sort of thing I wanted to read first thing this morning. Roger, I've always felt you were one of the most valued members of Letterville. I didn't read the offending post but can imagine what went on having lived in the neighbourhood for years I've always valued your input and hands on involvement and will sorely miss it.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
bummer Roger!! I always have enjoyed your posts and replies. Letterville needs and wants you. You are a good soul.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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I will respect your decision either way, but I am asking you to reconsider and stick around.
A lot of good people have dissappeared from this board for similar reasons, and I miss their input. If all the good people leave because of a few negative types, then it will be just me and the negatives. Then I won't have a reason to come here anymore, and I don't want that to happen.
Though you and I have never met personally, I consider you one of my "friends on the Bullboard". If you leave it will be like losing another good friend.
IMHO... Any merchant has a right to promote his product in any manner they see fit, and any customer has the right to decide for themselves to buy it or not.
Hoping you will reconsider,
Don
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane.
Posts: 2312 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Roger, don’t pull away, PLEASE! I try to read every post you have input on and I do so because I know you are a no bull person who tolerates as much as you teach. A few bad apples will only spoil if you allow them and I have learned to not pay that much attention to it all as it is the journey, not the destination that gives the joy. Please reconsider, you will be missed and in the interest of your business (and ours) stay here at home, where you belong, your indifferences with others will take care of themselves, time does that. You have, as the majority of others here in this changing sign world community have made a significant improvement to the quality of life. Please remember that all the talent in the world not expressed or shared is wrong, you are so righteously gifted, stay home and weather the storm.
-------------------- Ken Morse Jamn Graphics Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 213 | From: Santa Cruz, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Roger, does your wife have a Darning Egg? My Mom does. She uses it to tap the back of Dad's head when he brings home a rifle they didn't discuss or when he does other STUPID STUFF! You and my Dad are two of a kind. You're not going to leave here any more than he did. Both of you need to be here and you know it. I think enough of the guys have already said so, so you need to just forget about this dumb post and so will we. So........tell me a story about Hawaii, or do I have to send a darning egg to your wife? Hmm?
I just want to take the time to thank you for your valuable information and input in the past. You answered many questions for me, and I appreciate it.
I also agree with Kevin. My supplier has started carrying more of your products, directly because of requests from you being active on this board.
Thank you for the T-shirt and the samples. Your knowledge and sense of humour will be missed.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada
Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Rosemary, hit on something with that darning egg thing. Here in Louisiana, we, as kids, do a thing around Easter with hardboilded eggs. It's call "Pocking Eggs". one kid uses an egg and will strike it against the egg of his opponent. The one that stays intact wins. The good eggs always stays intact.
posted
One thing I've learned over the years on this board. Those that post zingers make themselves look absolutely STUPID. We can see it a mile away, don't think it goes unnoticed! Cam's post said it all, the one where he stated he was going to quit with the silly rebuttles (sp?) since he didn't wish for that kind of reputation.
Those that keep their wit about the situation win every time.
No need to run Roger. You're highly respected around here. I too shall miss your posts, humor and input. I hope you reconsider, and stay here.
posted
Roger...I decided a couple of weeks ago to "take a break" from Letterville, as a poster. I continue to "lurk" and eventually I will either start posting again or will just get tired of it all and even stop lurking as well.
I am just sort of sitting back and deciding at this point. In the past, a couple of times, I have made the decision to completely quit the forum but have returned. So, at this time, I am not saying I'll never return because "never" is a very long time.
I hope you will reconsider and just "take a break". Your participation as a merchant was a ground-breaking occurance here, and a welcome one.
I know that you and I have disagreed on a couple of topics in the past but I DO use your products regularly, I highly respect your endorsement of them, and I recommend them to anyone who asks and sometimes to those who don't ask!
I hope you will reconsider your position or it will be yet another reason for folks to wonder what direction this site is heading.
Back to my hiatus!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I'm proudly wearing my Rapid Tac t-shirt today, Proudly using Rapid Tac on a van we are lettering and I think I'll even spray a little Rapid Prep on for cologne as well in support of ya Roger.
[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322 Posts: 670 | From: Evansville, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2001
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I try to stay away from posts in which people will flame me, and have ever spoken up once, to argue my point.. I perfer not to stir. As I said, please keep in touch.. would love to hear from you occasionally.. do not regularly reply to your posts on your product, as I know nothing about it.. but have enjoyed your posts over the time you have been here. Be well.
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