Anyway, I can get Oracal, Arlon, or 3m Gerber from a couple of close suppliers of which the Arlon is the least expensive.

ATSM vinyl cost: $54.54 24''x10yd roll
Arlon cost $41.50

Have I been paying top dollar for junk vinyl?
Is Arlon good stuff? Can I use Rapid Tac with Arlon without "voiding the warranty"?

Which film is best?

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]

Wayne, can you describe the "cleaning and application" method and materials you used on these failed jobs??
I (of corse) for 1 beleive, if you HAD used Rapid Tac, you wouldn't have suffered this failure.
He he he he

Black is adhering just fine to the window surface.

But, Tan is peeling around the edges from the black.

Dark green is sticking just fine to the tan.

What did you wipe with(cloth rag,lint free paper towell, cheap paper towell,etc.)

To be honest, I don't remember what I used to clean the glass. More than likely it was alcohol to clean the window.
It is sticking like white on rice to the glass.

I used SOAPY WATER for application.

Now, read carefully Roger, before you reply.

#1 These folks (ATSM) told me that using an application fluid (other than soapy water) would void the warrantee.

#2 Their vinyl is warranted for 8-10 years for white and black and 6-8 years for colors. The vinyl didn't last even 3 years.

#3 I swear on my Mama's grave that I did not use anything but soapy water (one gallon of soap to three drops of water or was it one gallon water to three drops of Joy soap). Send it to a lab for analysis: I didn't use no Rapid Tac.

#4 Therefore it ain't my fault.Only one of three colors failed. Vinyl on top of vinyl.

#5 I already use Rapid Prep......

No lectures here, hope things go better with coke,No, No I mean I hope things go better from now on, yeah, yeah.

Just kiddin ya.

OK!
I pay alittle more for it!
But I like it.

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]

One of the things that causes vinyl to
delaminate, especially if it's on top of
black is the plasticizers in the black
vinyl. They migrate to the surface after
a while and cause the adhesive to fail. I
have had this problem with red on top of
black. One way to avoid this happening is
to cut the vinyl so that the black fits
around the next layer of vinyl rather than underneath; thus, the top layer is adhered
to the substrate material and not the black
vinyl or whatever color is the first applied.

I had done a graphic of a Boston Terrier on his truck door and the one on the driver's side was peeling. Maybe he parks his truck in his yard with one side faceing south so it's delaminating first? I haven't seen it yet but told him to bring it by for me to redo.

They have yet to give me an explanation on why application fluids can't be used with their vinyl and certainly haven't mentioned solvent based or otherwise for the reason.

Isn't Rapid Tac 2 made for use with non-solvent based adhesives?

So, that means it is a great help in "cold glass"
applications as well!!

When I have visited the likes of Arlon top execs.,and had lengthy conversation with "da boyz" at 3 M, they have expressed they're desire to market a line of "application aids", but as yet, they don't see the margin of "pay back" for the involvment.
This is why you are not getting "the go ahead" from them!!
We have been on nearly all the "vinyl test beds" in the last 12 years for 3M, they ask for samples,they call and tell us of the great results(in 3 states) but they stop there, they are not makeing any money on the deal, so why should they help?
Well thats they're posistion on it anyway!!1

I have been sent a sample from Oracal and was very impressed by their product too.

Of course, I always apply with Rapid Tac!