posted
Now if that's not a vague question, I don't know what is. Anyhow, my 5-yr old Gerber FasTrack 650 konked out today (x-axis overload error????), and it's left me wondering what to do in the meantime. It wouldn't be so bad, but it's only been 18 months since the last time it did this, and that 2-wk hiatus cost $1400, not counting shipping (@$300 more!!. Just luckily, I had a vacation planned at the same time, so it didn't hurt so bad. Well, I did some searching here and on the other sites on the internet, and I've found that brands, sizes, and types of plotters are as plentiful as tires and wheels for your truck. After narrowing down what I want and what I NEED, I know that 24" is perfect for me still, but I know accuracy on both super-small lettering and long-run tracking is also important.
Graphtec and Ioline both have GREAT deals on these plotters right now. Two of my friends have the same plotter, and have been cutting ruthlessly for the past three years with no problem. However, I just want to be sure I have all my bases covered before I go throwing money around.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Boy! You opened a can of worms on this one. Graphtec is good. Know a few that have them. My self though, I have 3 Summa machines in my shop. my oldest is comming up on its 5th birthday. no problems. Suggest you visit some local shops and see their machines at work... These are the only two I would suggest!
-------------------- Ralph Lyon aka firedawg LYON Northwest
Kent, WA USA Posts: 47 | From: Kent, WA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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Good idea. Glenn..........send him your Odyssey.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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If it is between Graphtec and Ioline, definately Graphtec. As for me, I am keeping my Acme 4000, Excalibur series with "Ultra-Sprockion" feed and spell check(TM). Or go with the Goober 4B available on this board.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Summa all the way...best workhorse for the money on the market. I've had mine since '94 and no problems at all. Sweetest tracking friction feed there is too
Karen
-------------------- Karen Sartain,'Pisel' on chat 11699 E Hwy 181 Willcox, Arizona 85643
We are not human beings on a spiritual journey.We are spiritual beings on a human journey."-Stephen Covey
Posts: 336 | From: Chiricahua National Monument, Az | Registered: Nov 1998
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well i gota get a hooray for ROLAND....i got a pnc-1000 was used in 93, still have it and works fine. bought a pnc-1100 24" and will cut down to 2" scraps, love it works fine. if i had money to spring for a new one..id look at the cm-300 pro model....24" or the cm-400 30".....and they all will cut right from corel.....so you dont need gerber softwear..
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Love our summa ... super sprint is now dusty paper weight. Whatever you decide make sure it is a tangentle (sp? ... lifts blade up) not drag knife ... for tiny letters
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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One thing I found with Graphtec is they offer this thing they call "Bullit Proof Support."
There was one time that I needed an adjustment and they "next day'd" me a padded case with another cutter. I put mine in the case and they had it picked up, made the repair, shipped it back, and when I had the loaner packed they did a pick up call for it.
Between it being the cadillac of cutters, having a warrantee like that, and folks that I can call when I want to brainstorm, I'd keep buying them.
There are a few quality machines on the market. Find someone that can provide real after sales service for you where you live.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Dwane ..By all means, whatever you do, get a machine capable of tangential operation. If cutting small characters in virtually ANY material is your hot button, you definitely need a swivel (drag) knife design...nothing else even comes close. Well, maybe close. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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Haven't tried anything but my Roland PNC 1000 (because I haven't HAD to) I have had it for about 12 years. No problemo.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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Nope; not in Europe. Barry nailed it with "asleep at the wheel."
In re: "best plotter." T-Series Summa no question (tangential, speed, tracking, 600 grams down-force, OPOS, ...). But, Graphtec is a real close second ... IMHO (Howard may order them differently). Gerber also makes a quality cutter, albeit the Odyssee might have fallen short of the mark (in the opinion of folks that replaced theirs with a Summa DuraSign).
Support? Summa or Graphtec, hands down. Graphtec is bulletproof. We don't dodge bullets, but we don't dodge phone calls either (pretty easy to get us on the first try).
Asthetics? Black is beautiful baby.
The worms are out of the can Howard. Let's have some fun.
Best Regards,
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com
Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Problems with the Odyssey? Pish-Posh (always wanted to use that term ) I just ran a 48"x50yd. roll of reflective vinyl without a single problem! And I've had my Odyssey for 2 years.
If there is a problem, its only because they don't clean the lint out of the tracking sensors every six months or so.
posted
I've noticed that when the question of the best cutter comes up, the subject of cutting is rarely addressed, and those that don't actually cut well resort to bragging about how well they track.
It pays, literally, to be competitive. If the guy (or gal) up the street has a Graphtec and you don't, you could be at a disadvantage. He or she will be able to do better work and more of it.
How's that, Jim? hk <BG>
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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I have a Summa T-1300 with tagential head, and opos...and I love it.
I have done 70' and 80' long paper plots and it hasn't missed a beat yet...
I have two complaints... 1 is the fact that the tagential blade holder is plastic, and could be stripped out easily. I've had mine for (3) years and it hasn't happened yet, but I am careful with it. The second is the pen used in it is expensive. Paying $19 a pop for a ballpoint pen is not fun...
Other than that, I stand behind it 110%...
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
Ok, so in my post I raved about the perfect tracking...ok, now I'll rave about the perfect cutting that I accomplish with my Summa..it does it all and if it doesn't, I know someone in Summa will be right on top of the problem immediately. And as a side thought...ya know, it doesn't really matter how well a cutter cuts if it's not tracking right
Cheers
Karen
-------------------- Karen Sartain,'Pisel' on chat 11699 E Hwy 181 Willcox, Arizona 85643
We are not human beings on a spiritual journey.We are spiritual beings on a human journey."-Stephen Covey
Posts: 336 | From: Chiricahua National Monument, Az | Registered: Nov 1998
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We have 2 graphtec's in the shop,an older FC2100 and a newer CE1000. Both are great machines, But I personally like using the old FC2100 better. I guess once you get used to one machine another just never seems the same.
-------------------- Jim Hansen Tri-Star Graphics Bethel, Ct. 800-716-6500 e-mail:tsgracingdecals@aol.com www.tsgracingdecals.com Posts: 51 | From: Bethel, Ct. usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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I have had an Ioline, Roland, and now the Summa Durasign... its by far the winner in every aspect - cut quality, speed, tracking, and contour cutting. Cant compare to a Graphtec since I have never had one, but I will test one for a couple of years if you need me to Howard I have also been happy with the Summa support, I almost always get through right away and if not they actaully call me back!
-------------------- Brian Stoddard Northwest Wholesale Signs
I am totally amazed and thankful for the kind things our customers are saying here!!!
Thank you so much Ralph, Mark @ Slam, Ryan, Mark K, Brian and Karen (and Howard for setting Karen up for the slam dunk ... go girl!).
I owe you. So, if your address isn't in this thread, shoot it to me at jim@summausa.com. Belgian chocolates are on their way ... er, going tomorrow (connection: our cutters are made in Belgium).
Huge Disclaimer: gotta cut it off here. I have a wife and kids who've developed and affinity for my paychecks.
Thanks again gang!
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com
Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Well, there are those who insist that just getting the material through their machine at all represents some major technological victory. I don't know that many signmakers who enjoy the luxury of loading a single roll of vinyl and running it end to end without a change. I admit that I DO know one or two and, for them, having a great tracking machine may well be the ultimate feature/ benefit. I actualy heard of one last week who didn't cut anything at all, but did a lot of full scale paper paterns. OK, that's a good example of a rare example. On the other hand, this post is about the best cutter...which implies an interest in actual cutting. There is no other cutter equal to the Graphtec 4100+. Period. If you don't have one now, someday you'll wish you did. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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Oh Howard You are a sales guy, I am a signmaker. I almost bought the almost comparable Graphtec years ago and the only reason it wasn't comparable to the Summa is that the Summa did everything the Graphtec did, as well as the Graphtec did it, but for less money. Did I buy second best to save a buck? No, I researched each machine, tried them both out at trade shows and decided a new great plotter and some leftover money in the bank was the best way to go...but then that's just me
Either of these machines will do the job you want,as good as you can get it done,with great support..you just have to decide how much you want to pay...or get Howard to sharpen that pencil
Karen
-------------------- Karen Sartain,'Pisel' on chat 11699 E Hwy 181 Willcox, Arizona 85643
We are not human beings on a spiritual journey.We are spiritual beings on a human journey."-Stephen Covey
Posts: 336 | From: Chiricahua National Monument, Az | Registered: Nov 1998
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I also have a roland cx-24 and it is a worker. When I was shopping I looked at Summa. Hey Jim, If you take trade in's I will think about it.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Can a Summa cut 1/16th" letters like my Graphtec?? .............and cut them cleanly every time?
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Howard's just getting antsy, I guess. There's a lot of talk nowdays about getting the most bang for the buck, especially as it pertains to the purchase of capital equipment. I know Graphtec is more expensive than most. My job is to convince those three year+ survivors in the business that if they expect ot survive another three years, they'd better equip themselves to do so...and you can't do that today with entry level aspirations or equipmemt. The best cutter won't be the least expensive...it will be the most capable. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
posted
I wasn't aware that Graphtec was more expensive than Summa. I did a lot of checking recently, and Summa was not cheaper than Graphtec on comparable equipment. I presently own a Summa D610, but if I was to purchase another, Graphtec would be my only other option. I do like black though. I could go a whole lifetime and never need to cut 1/16" letters: nice, but not really necessary.
(Jim Doggett, why am I having tracking problems on my 6 year old D610, what needs to be tweaked?)
posted
Whether or not one actually cuts 1/16" characters is not the whole story....one CAN cut that small accurately, and the ability to do so is simply a measure of the general precision the machine is capable of. I often see on this very board (or others), posts complaining about torn cutting strips, or the difficulty weeding metal-film, or having to round the corners, apply radius, or some other work around to cover a generally poor cut. The question was asked "do you need a microscope to weed it?" No, you don't....it's a snap! So you say that kind of precision isn't necessary? I would acede to your experience, but I might suggest that if this one, little, attribute can mean the difference between your taking on a project or not, or can save you hours on the weeding table, or just makes your work look better, then you should consider my previous statement more thoughtfully...if you need to compete, that 1/16" makes a very large statement. hk
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
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