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This is sort of complicated, so pay attention. My regular customer, Jack (who builds carnival games), contracts me to provide a 4'x7' edge graphic for one of his customers. The artwork is provided by Jill, a graphic artist who has worked with Jack's customer, Bill. There is a deadline that is fast approaching, the artwork, supplied on a CD doesn't work, but I have a color print out that Jill supplied. The color picture is scanned and outputed to an Edge II and applied to Jack's board. The picture looks good, Jack is happy, Jill is happy, Bill is not. He expected a ink jet, photo quality picture, (which was explained to him before printing that that option would not work because of how Jack constructs the game and how the game would be used.) Now Jill is unhappy because Bill will not pay her and is holding back payment on other jobs because of this. (He sounds like a creep)I'll get paid, no problem, Jack allready got paid, looks like Jill is the only leverage Bill has and he is taking it out on her. Jack doesn't care about losing this customer, it's a once and done job that he got thru the internet on his web site.
Should I worry about this now that it's out of my hands? Whould I have handled it any different from the start to avoid a problem? Both Jack and I are dealing with first time, once and done customers.
-------------------- Carper's Signs 594 Union School Rd. Mount Joy, PA 17552 carpersign@earthlink.net
Posts: 157 | From: Lancaster, PA, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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You didn't say why the artwork on the CD wouldn't work, but it's not clear whether that's the point anyway. Was the problem because of having to scan the color proof - or - because Bill wasn't aware of what an edge print looks like. Would the CD working have made Bill any happier?
Yes, I think you should worry about it - because it will happen again. Maybe mailing him an actual sample of an edge print or emailing a 1:1 scan of an edge print showing the texture and detail would have covered everybody.
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There was no time to mail samples, most of the people I deal with know what an edge output looks like. The people I dealt with were all happy, the other fellow, who I didn't even know was further down the chain (Jack & Jill dealt with him, but not me.) We are trying to smooth it over with Bill and don't want to make this just Jill's problem, allthough she appears to be bearing the brunt of his anger.Bill did have an opporutnity to choose a high resolution ink jet from another sourse but it cost too much.
-------------------- Carper's Signs 594 Union School Rd. Mount Joy, PA 17552 carpersign@earthlink.net Posts: 157 | From: Lancaster, PA, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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Ah, so he KNEW the difference and had purposely selected the lower cost alternative. Based on that, it seems clear, he got what he asked for. If he's inventing problems to keep from paying what he rightfully owes, he's a bum in my book. Bums need to be taken to court. If you want to do the right thing, back Jill up by testifying.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've run into this before. They are expecting a near photographic quality image even though you told them it isn't going to happen.
My solution for the future is to run off a small sample print and have the client to sign off directly onto the sample. I had one situation last year where the client told me that wasn't what he asked for. I pulled out the sample with his signature on it and showed it to him. He then admitted that I did try to tell him, but he just misunderstood. He's still a regular customer, BTW.
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The sample idea works, I have many in my shop, but the problem is the end buyer is 2-3 people removed from me. I don't know who he is, have never met him, and sometimes don't even know he exsists.
-------------------- Carper's Signs 594 Union School Rd. Mount Joy, PA 17552 carpersign@earthlink.net Posts: 157 | From: Lancaster, PA, USA | Registered: Aug 1999
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Now, this is probably rumor....but I heard that Mike Tyson can be hired to bite a guy's ear off for $5 US.....and for $10 he'll gnaw on the guy's leg till it bleeds.
But, you better hurry...cause I think he's back on his way to the slammer soon for another rape conviction...hehehe.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Mis-communication has ALWAYS been a promblem in this industry. Pointing fingers and cry baby tactics,has ALWAYS been the promblem with gutless,dishonest customers Keep Jack and Jill as your friends in business that you will be working with more than the "one time"customers. Personaly I would add up the money the two of you recieved. Divide it by three for all to be in the same boat.
Hope this helps
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY
Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ron, sounds like this has about reached the end of negotiation somewhat amicably.
I would say that if it happened to me, part of letting the shmuck stiff Jill on the payment for the print, would be to not let it be used. If there is some larger "game" that was constructed & paid for I would ask that he either black out the print completely or at least pay something for the fact that he has something. (that everyone else in your story thinks looks acceptable)
quote: The sample idea works, I have many in my shop, but the problem is the end buyer is 2-3 people removed from me. I don't know who he is, have never met him, and sometimes don't even know he exsists.
For future reference I think you should provide the sample for your client to show their client for them to show their client. If the deadbeat is 2 or 3 people removed from you, at least the miscommunication will also be clearly removed from you.
[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
if Jill, the designer and owner of copyright to the artwork, hasn't been paid then Jill can take Bill to court.
carnival owners don't like people who attract Sherrifs to the lot. once Jill gets her judgement, it wont be hard for her to get Bill run off the lot. once that happens he'll either have to pay up (no other carnival would hire him either once they hear that "he's trouble").
i'd support and encourage Jill in taking him to court, but i wouldn't divvy up the loot. Jill needs to learn to fight her own battles and not to allow customers to take art before its paid for.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Sounds to me like two problems. First, there wre too many middlemen and that drove the price higher than what he wanted to pay but he wouldn't cop to it until after he got what he wanted. Secondly, the guy is a bully and chose to pick on the girl. Go get him before he leaves town!
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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