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» The Letterville BullBoard » Old Archives » Over confidence.

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Author Topic: Over confidence.
Dan Sawatzky
Resident


Member # 88

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I'm sure we all do it from time to time. Or maybe it's just stupid old me...

I posted last week about a super day where the ideas flowed like melted butter. I should have known it was too easy.

The deposit check was supposedly being couriored as I was drawing.

Well monday came and no check. Tuesday went by. Wednesday I figured maybe he had decided to hand it to me in person when I had the meeting with him to give him the presentation.

Thursday morning, bright and early the phone rang. It was his manager. Seems terms had changed. They still wanted me to do the design for them but... I HATE THAT WORD!

They then outlined how conditions had changed. They wanted me to design a concept SKETCH and layout SKETCH for the project for a much lessor fee.

I tried to explain that I would happily sit down with them once more (AT NO CHARGE)to to discuss the project with them. I would SHOW them all I had done so far and we could then determine where to go from there. But I couldn't reduce my fee for SKETCHES as I still had to develop the entire idea even for that type of approach. I explained that they were paying for the ideas represented as well as the finished artwork. I was firm and polite and professional.

The manager told me wshe would explain the situation to my client and MAYBE he would get back to me.

A little while later I phoned my client. (I had to calm down again) He informed me that his manager had explained the situation to him in detail and I was GONE. They had decided to get an ARCHITECT to design their project for them. I wished them well but he wasn't quite so cordial.

I wasn't mad at the client. They were doing what they had a right to do. I didn't agree with them but they were within their rights non-the-less.

I was mad at myself, for I had broken a very basic rule. Don't start a job until the deposit check is in the bank. To do otherwise is STUPID.

I now have a wonderful adventure golf designed and no customer to go with it. The good part is that I only printed and bound two copies of the artwork. My actual cash outlay is minimal.

I think I'll hang the pictures on my board right behind my desk. As a permanent reminder.

Being self taught is a great education. I get tests from time to time too. Flunked this one miserable, but then again.... that's how I learn.

The project will get carefully filed away. Who knows.... maybe I can sell down the road. But you can bet I'll wait for the check before I do any more work on the ideas.

-dan

--------------------
Dan Sawatzky
Imagination Corporation
Yarrow, British Columbia
dan@imaginationcorporation.com
http://www.imaginationcorporation.com

Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!!


Posts: 8756 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cheryl nordby
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Member # 1100

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Aw Dan that is a bummer. Sorry to hear that.

I had a much smaller version last week. I met with a beauty salon owner to see what she had in mind for her windows. She informed me in no uncertain terms she didn't even WANT her windows done....that lettered windows were tacky. But she needed more business. So I explained that done properly...the job would look professional and very nice. She said to just 'drop off the designs' for her to review. (I have heard this one before) So I stopped by with the designs...she wasn't there. I called to set up an appointment to discuss the designs....she didn't have time....called again....stopped by again. Turns out she really wanted me to 'just drop off the designs' for her to ponder......and take somewhere else. Luckily I have been down this road before and didn't do it. Too bad....I had some great designs for her windows! Butler Gold scrolls....Magic letterstyle....they looked great!

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: cheryl nordby ]


Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steve Barba
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Member # 431

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I'm glad that I'm not the only one this happens to. I hadda phone call from a business here in town and he wanted me to estimate some signs for him. I met the guy and he shows me his drawings for the signs he wants. I told him how I could re-arrange the copy and change the colors to get it all to look right for what he was trying to sell. Long story short- I designed the signs, put the design on my bid sheet,(that has the statement printed on it..."all artwork property of, blah,blah,blah), next thing I see is MY designs all over his lot. He painted them himself! Next time that I seen him, I asked about how he protects his copyrighted stuff, (screenprinting outfit), he explains, then I say, "oh I guess I'm doin it right then, grab that bid that I sent over to you, thats what I put on my sheet too".

This is a small town- 6000 population, and I'm very new to the community, so I didn't call the States Attorneys office.

Dan- I have to drive by those signs every day, so thats my little reminder not to ever do that again.

--------------------
"B0LT" on the chat room thing.

steven.barba@yellowjackets.bhsu.edu
605-720-7669


Posts: 768 | From: Sturgis South Dakota | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adrienne Pereira
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Member # 1046

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Dan....I think this may have something to do with the passion you have to do what you do...

We get an idea put our way, we get a vision (you are good at that!) and run with it...nothing wrong with that....

Just goes to show ya, you are an artist first....you are lucky in that you have Janis there to balance that out right?

Too bad, they just missed out on having the best park ever! (aside from Giggleridge )

Will be interesting to see what thier 'Architech' comes up with...lol!

Keep up the good work!

A

--------------------
Adrienne Pereira
Splash Signs

Port Angeles, WA
----------------
"Sure, it's colder in the Northwest, but...it's a damp cold!"

360-477-5656
splashsigns@msn.com


Posts: 4873 | From: Port Angeles, Washington, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marty Happy
Resident


Member # 302

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Hey Dan & Cheryl....

Sorry about the losses. I find that I can usually recycle good ideas even just to use them as part of my portfolio when meeting with new clients as an example of a presentation I can create exclusively for them. Makes it easier to ask for and get a design deposit as well because the client sees that the presentation is a tangible object that took a certain amount of effort to prepare and that it's not some verbal promise of a presentation to come. And who knows... they might even buy the already created concept with whatever necessary copy changes.

Never underestimate the power of the impulse buy and competition between businesses. Many business people are ready to grab a great opportunity when they see it especially if they want a marketing opportunity before a competitor gets it. So take your already prepared presentation and make a few cold calls to see what happens.

--------------------
Happy Signing...... Marty

M.F. (Marty) Happy
Signmaker Since 1974
Happy Ad Sign & Design
Regina SK, Canada S4N 5K4
306-789-9567
happyad@sasktel.net
www.happyad.ca

Get Happy & Get Noticed!


Posts: 773 | From: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cam Bortz
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Member # 55

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Don't you love that? A client with the nerve to get nasty because YOU refused to drop YOUR prices - AFTER he/she agreed to them?

I had a potential client call last week about a restaurant sign; went to see him at the location, looked at the existing signs, quoted a price, and said I required a $100 deposit before doing any artwork. He hemmed and hawed; couldn't he see some "preliminary concept" first? Not a chance. I had my portfolio with me; he can judge my competence from that. He wrote me a check for $100; I did a sketch on the computer at my shop that afternoon. He came by to see it, then informed me that a competitor had quoted the job at about half my bid. Oh well...

In thirteen years, I've had exactly three customers who have paid for sketches and then gone elsewhwere. On one hand, its annoying to not get the job; on the other, I was paid for my time - I spent an hour on this project, including the initial visit - and business was conducted on my terms. That and knowing that a so-called competitor is doing this job for half the money (this was not a high-dollar job) is the consolation prize of the week.

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Cam Bortz ]



--------------------
"A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle


Cam Bortz
Finest Kind Signs
Pondside Iron works
256 S. Broad St.
Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379
"Award winning Signs since 1988"

Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Joe Rees
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Member # 211

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I'm not going to bother telling a personal story of my own. Lord knows we've all done it. Yeah, I think it's the passion that gets us. WE know the design is good and valuable - it is inconceivable when others don't understand. Especially with your credentials Dan. To have it dismissed out of hand is an alien concept. Definitely their loss.

--------------------
Joe Rees
Cape Craft Signs
(Cape Cod, MA)
http://www.capecraft.com
e-mail: joe@capecraft.com

SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity!
Click Here for Sound Clips!

Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ken Henry
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Member # 598

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Hi Dan. I'm sorry to say that I've had similar experiences as well. Looking back, I have come to the conclusion that rejections like these are often the result of dealing with management whose main credentials are an accounting background, or an MBA degree. These folks often have "tunnel vision" and are quite often focused on what things "cost", rather than what the finished project will do "to attract". Not all financially focused people have this trait, but a good many of them do.

When you find a decision maker with imagination and vision, you will often find a person who can be receptive to a presentation based upon "what can be". I've often wished there was some sort of simplified "test" that would give an immediate indication of where a potential customer's primary focus might be. That would be most helpful in determining just how to make a presentation that would be meaningful to that individual.

--------------------
Ken Henry
Henry & Henry Signs
London, Ontario Canada
(519) 439-1881
e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com

Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ?


Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jerry Steward
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Member # 2420

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Hey, ditto. The problem with creative work is that we ourselves care more about the project than many of our customers do, & get swept off our feet with visions of a masterpiece. This ofcourse,is why all good sign-people go to heaven.
PS.- I just got back from Disneyland, & I must say - CHERYL NORDBY LOOKS JUST LIKE SNOW WHITE!!!

--------------------
Jerry Steward
Sign&Print
Bethlehem, PA

Posts: 126 | From: Bethlehem, PA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cheryl nordby
Visitor
Member # 1100

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Thanks Jerry! (I think)
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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