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This topic will probably be entertaining. I have been "stiffed" for payment by two customers in about 7 years.
One didn't pay me for 2 months and then wrote me a bad check. He was a pizza shop guy. When I got the "bad check" notice from my bank along with a $25 handling charge, I stormed right into his shop around lunch time and yelled at him that he had 1 hour to get the money he owed me over to my house or I was going to the county to file suit in small claims court. He came through...
Another lady (beautician) came to my house and wanted me to create the graphics for her van with a new company logo. She also was going to get a sign for her shop. Like an idiot, I sketched up about three different designs for her to mull over. No charge for the design (at that time) as long as she gave me the order. She never called back....never put any sign up....never did her car. So I sent her a bill for the designs....She called me and told me that I could see her in court...she wasn't going to pay. I was pretty much screwed without a signed work order....so I just sent her bills every month for about a year with "authentic" looking red stamps stating that she was being turned over to a collection agency....which of course she wasn't.
Most people have been very good....a handshake with personal integrity backing it up. Let's hear some war stories, and perhaps how you protect your valuable time.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Sorry to hear of your non-payment. I usually get that once or twice a year. Some are current customers, after a few faxed or mailed invoices I forget about it and put it in the bad debt file for tax purposes.
One thing you might try with new customers is request a deposit before any work (sketches) are done, you are throwing sketches at a job you may or may not get. I have even had designs done by other shops before I wrote on them that they were my property.
Always get a 50% deposit on orders over $100.00 and paid in full if under $100.00.
Cheers
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134
Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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That's a great idea...I think I'm going to start doing that (partial payment in advance). It hasn't been a big problem, but frustrating nonetheless when it does occur.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I have learned alot from this board as far as not getting screwed. I never give up my designs anymore unless I have been paid. They do not get a copy to 'show their partner' before they have paid. And as far as collecting final payment....well, I am pretty tough in that way. I don't take crap from anyone. In my 25+ years in biz I haven't really had a problem except once or twice. And eventually did get paid from them. But then...like I said....I have some big bad friends to help. Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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#1 Half upfront,NO exceptions #2 The balance before work leaves shop, NO exceptions #3 I don't even install the sign untill paid in full. NO exceptions
Never had a problem, getting paid upfront prevents problems, so I don't allow problems, NO exceptions
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Very good advice. I'm surprised I haven't been taken more than I have....as I just trusted everybody...you know, did the job and then sent the bill to them. Probably naive on my part.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I have lost about $750 in 19 years from nonpayment or bad checks. There is another local sign guy who loses $2000+ every year, and grosses less than I do. I think it's a combination of how you do business and the kind of customers you attract.
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I just give all my signs away for free………….hell, it’s not like I need the money. Ok ………so a couple of sign shops in the area have really suffered due to this………….but nobody has lost an eye or any thing……………
Ok………maybe not…………I just try to follow Ronnie’s advise now.
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
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Seriously………..its not so much about getting stiffed as it is about cash flow. More businesses fail due to cash flow constraints then a single loss in payment from a customer. That’s why I’ve changed my policy to reflect Ronnie’s business practices………he gave me a good tongue lashing about this once……….and he’s right. Cash flow is an essential component of any business, especially small business. So if you follow this practice, you'll have the nessecary cash flow to opperate and you'll never get stiffed......makes for a better sleep too.
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
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gotem here...givin signs away....been in business since 86 full time....and from 1986 to 1998...i lived in sarasota...and NEVER GOT STIFFED. moved here in july 98..and sofar...iam out $650, $300 and another $300....and all that in less then 3 years.......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Joe, we've been hearing horror stories about Pensacola on the rate of about once a week for three years. Why DID you leave Sarasota to begin with?
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Todd, If your going to give the Signs away, I suggest a handling & design charge let's say for the price the signs would sold for! You can use that for a selling point FREE SIGNS ALL YOU PAY ARE DESIGN & HANDLING CHARGES! SO DON'T DELAY GET YOUR FREE SIGN TODAY
-------------------- Ronnie Conrad Augusta,Ga Posts: 374 | From: Augusta,Ga. | Registered: Aug 2000
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cam.....thought it was a good move....lot of places look good ..til ya live there!!!! we got a bigger and nicer house and property here..it was the wifes parents house. and got in it for 1/2 of assessed value. like i said there are less then 50 shops(storefronts) in this area, but was totally suprised(after being here) with the amount of people with cutters workin from their homes and that everybody here are "bargin buyers". the WAL-MARTS here have air brush stands inside every one, and the new guy thats took over these places has a vinyl cutter set up in there also!!!! guess where that is gona take sign prices.... mark, left penna in 81, from avella, burgettstown area. most of the people their worked steel mills and coal mines, and when i left in 81 things werent good. i dont miss the winters and the overcast skys....will be there for the mars thing for sure....havent been home since 95-95.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ronnie...hahaha....I like it...I'm a slow learner...but catching on.
In all seriousness, I don't give anything away...except to family and friends.
I remember a guy once asked me to draw him a picture of one of his family members. I said, "Sure...that will cost you (X) dollars". And he says, "You would charge me for that? It's just a drawing". I told him it was my profession....and asked him if he would expect a "no charge" appointment with his doctor or dentist....I think he got my point.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I never give up my designs anymore unless I have been paid. They do not get a copy to 'show their partner' before they have paid. 
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