We just picked up an Edge Classic to get a foothold in digital printing (after reading many helpful posts here. Thanks everyone!)
I've heard from my Gerber rep that the Edge Classic does not do well with Duracoat foils, as the head is fixed and somewhat finiky. He told me that Duracoat manufactures its foil on a thinner plastic that tends to get caught in the head, and it really wouldn't be worth the time and aggravation to use anything but Gerber.
Any comments?
Jim?
Thanks in advance,
Brit
-------------------- Brit Albritton Sign Grafx Hadley, MA
Posts: 12 | From: Hadley, MA | Registered: Dec 2001
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A buddy of mine has the Edge 2, which is of course not your particular machine....but he uses DuraCoat all the time....and in some cases it seems to print better.
My SUSPICION is that they are giving you a line of bull....but, since I don't know firsthand...maybe someone else can chime in with their personal experience.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I personally think that most "punched" vinyls should work for you, however, on occassion....the punched vinyls that have the vinyl removed along the length of the "hole pattern" are not always as trouble-free as the punched vinyl where the vinyl around the "hole punch pattern" is intact.
Oracal (which I believe is made by 3M) has a 7 year High Performance vinyl where the hole pattern is punched directly through the vinyl...which would make it less apt to "rip" out in both your Edge and sprocket fed cutter.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I also do not have the classic, I have an Edge 2 and have had numerous problems with Duracoat foils.
Since you are in MA call me and I'll give you the skinny.
If you plan on actually warrantying the end product to your customers, you might want to use the gerber foils and materials. If not plan on dealing with finger pointing from all companies involved.
If you price your prints properly then you should have no problem using Gerber's materials.
You will find this machine is a whole lot more sophisticated than a plotter, and requires a huge learning curve. Not to mention it is not cheap to own and or maintain.
As far as the learning curve goes, Gerber has set up different speeds and temperatures for their materials and foils. Metallic Gold has a different setting than HP white and so on. The software has all this already figured out for you.
If you have the time to figure out all the settings for Calon red and duracoat spot black and want to spend countless hours and dollars in wasted product. The shoot for the moon! Those few bucks saved will seem petty to time and money wasted.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Your Gerber Rep is correct in stating that the liner is thinner, Just to give you an idea I ran a 4 color process job on Gerber view perferated window film, that stuff is not cheap. I ran magenta yellow in gerber but had run out of cyan in gerber, so I put in the cyan made from Duracoat, the print head actually melted the liner and snapped the foil ruining the whole job at a cost of over $200.00
Guess what, all I got for an answer from Duracoat was, zippo! They said I had to adjust my heat settings to use thier products. ( I don't think so )
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yikes! That's a horror story! I'm gonna pass that along to my buddy. He, fortunately, has not experienced that but if that's the case....then you are correct in saying it's not worth it.
Appreciate your comments. Have a good one.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Thanks for the advice, Bob. It sounds like I'd have to be very careful with third party foils. And it's always nice to talk to a neighbour.
Has anyone had any luck setting the temperature lower or making other adjustments? If its just a matter of getting the settings right, and Summa or Zero Nine can give me the right settings, I still might be tempted.
-------------------- Brit Albritton Sign Grafx Hadley, MA
Posts: 12 | From: Hadley, MA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Why would you use another foil other than Gerber? Duracoat isn't that much cheaper. Maybe $30 on a roll at best. That works out to pennies when you think of it and break it down to the actual cost to do a job. Then you run the risk of ruining the print head that may cost as much as $2000 for a $40.00 job. If the cusomer want domething that costs that much less use the GCS series.
-------------------- Kevin Landry KnL Signs Halifax NS Posts: 314 | From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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The price for basic cartridges is not too different, but the refills from Duracoat are much cheaper (about $30 per foil), and it would be nice to use them if they really weren't much different for most jobs.
-------------------- Brit Albritton Sign Grafx Hadley, MA Posts: 12 | From: Hadley, MA | Registered: Dec 2001
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WE HAVE A CLASSIC EDGE AND HAVE USED DURACOAT FOILS FOR YEARS - WE HAVE NOT FOUND ANY PROBLEM WITH THEM VERSUS GERBER FOILS.
ONE THING I REALLY LIKE ABOUT DURACOAT IS THAT YOU CAN USE REFILLS - YOU ARE REALLY STARTING TO SAVE MONEY NOW!
WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD SATISFACTION WHEN WE RUN ACROSS A PROBLEM (WHICH ONLY HAPPENED TWICE)FROM OUR DISTRIBUTOR - T2 SOLUTIONS.
GERBER ALSO RECOMMENDS 3M SHEETING FOR THE EDGE - I HAVE ALWAYS HAD A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH THAT. WE HAVE USED AVERY AND CALON REFLECTIVE SHEETING FOR DECALS AND FIND THAT THE PRINT - EITHER DURACOAT OR GERBER - IS FAR FAR FAR SUPERIOR ON AVERY.
THIS IS MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCE - HOPE IT HELPS
-------------------- Keith Slack LETTERCO Souderton, Pa.
There are many many people using these foils with no problems what so ever, I have and keith hasn't.
It might be in your best interest to check out www.4edgetalk.com. I have seen actual posters from the companies address questions and or answers to the respected products.
Then make your decision based on your desire and knowledge.
The thing to do is try them and see for yourself,
They definetly don't suck. The refill thingy is real nice and tempting but I'm still ripped over the Cyan ordeal.
Not to mention Spot black will not print over finger prints on the vinyl. When I called Duracoat I was told directly not to use spot black because it was an inferior foil, but to use process black in it's place. That was directly from the tech department of Duracoat.
Go figure, Funny I wasn't told that when I bought it!
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Brit, I started a long winded post to you and I guess I "happy clicked" it off into cyberspace, so I'll keep this one simpler. Stick with Gerber stuff, it's proven and your best bet for the least amount of headaches. I wouldn't use anything but Gerber foils & vinyls - it gives you the best way to give your customer a job you won't loose sleep over. If you need help or just have questions fell free to call - 508-758-9692 Karen
posted
We tried Duracoat just once and never used it again because of the fiddling around with heat to get the proper resin transfer.
We bought Zero-Nine when we wanted a spot color not available from Gerber, and it always ran just fine with the Gerber settings.
We always used Gerber for the serious jobs just because we knew the result would be to spec, and the material savings with other brands was insignificant compared to the other cost factors in the job, primarily labor and avoidance of rework. The one time we had a catastrophic failure using all Gerber materials, Gerber was lightning fast shipping out replacement materials to correct the problem. They have my respect. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA
Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I have the trunnion (classic) model, quality construction, built like a brick-s@#!house.
The duracoat cartridges do not fit easily into the machine, and the foils, especially the process colors, are inferior and do not halftone or cover as well as the ones sold by Gerber.
However, GSP does not always live up to their guarantee - I had a major premature failure of cobalt blue on 220 white (a fleet job), and Gerber stood mute. I replaced the whole project on my own dime.
[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Purcell ]
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I was told the same thing as Bob - "not to use spot black because it was an inferior foil, but to use process black in it's place." Duracoat's tech even sent me a free 50 yd refill of process black at no charge because of the problems I had with their spot black. The process black printed just the same. I use ZeroNine super opaque black for small, short term decals without any problems but use only Gerber foils on Gerber/3M 225 vinyl for truck lettering and long term signage.
I use the ZeroNine Clear Protecter foil now too. No problems with that either.
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey
Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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