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I bought a clipart disc for about $12.00, that has on it approx. 10,000 national logos including Harley D. and about 5 of them. I know for a fact that Harley is amoung the top 10 in going after illegal use of it's copyrighted materials. Common sense tells me, that these are all knockoff logos, as no royalties could be afforded from the 12.00 that they sell the disc for. My point here....What are my rights here? I paid for the disc. I know what they are, Do you? How am I supposed to know when I get a scab clipart disc. They are everywhere... Do we just plead ignorance. The whole business of clipart has been "whored out". We did it to ourselves. It is so sad for our profession, but it has happened, and will continue. I would venture a guess, that over 50% of clipart today has been ripped off from it's rightful owner. I agree to keeping our standards for it on a higher level as I'm sure most of you would, but it is sad what we have let happen to ourselves. There is little honor left, but I'm happy to experience some of it with you folks. Bronzeo
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Hello Jack. I think if you let common sense guide you in the usage of the logos acquired in that manner, then you won't go too far wrong. Example: A Harley-Davidson dealer asks you to supply a banner for a rally where they are a major sponsor of the event. They may not be able to supply you with an acceptable file or artwork, but since you have the disc, I honestly don't think anyone's nose would get too far out of joint, if you were to use the logo in that application. However, if you incorporate that logo into a t-shirt design that the corporate head office might find "objectionable" or in bad taste, then you might run into their corporate wrath. In Both situations, you have used their logo "without authorization", but one situation is "supportive" of their market presence, while the other might be regarded as "unsupportive", and perhaps even degrading.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Jack, I understand your feelings but some of what you typed seems a little overboard as their are persons we all know kicking out fonts as well as designs as if we should believe that they invented them, which to me would fall into the same catagory.
Things people are typing these days make me wonder what I have been doing for the past 45 years as if some of my designs were not to be copied. Persons and companies copyright whatever it is whether it belongs to them or not, just for the copyright. Harley Davidson used HOG and sued some small town bike shop but yet it was overturned in court due to that the term was used to represent what the bikes were called years back.
I have so much more to say but don't figure on anyone really getting it so, have a nice day!
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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All these logos are supplied with my Signlab does this make them illegal to. I think common sense should come through here if you were copying shirts and selling them for profit with harley on them and no permission to do so expect to get caught. But if you have the clip art and doing the sign for a Harley Licensed person or dealer were is the problem. also if you make a logo free for a friend to put on his Harley Where is the problem or you replace a Harley logo on a damaged bike to original Where is the problem. COMMON SENSE
-------------------- Ian Wilson Signmaker Retired 3 Panorama Drive Toowoomba Queensland Australia may all your troubles be little ones. The man that never make a mistake never makes anything. Posts: 656 | From: Toowoomba Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jack, I applaud you for having the common sense to buy the cheap logo disc for $12 instead of the $400 Corporate Logo disc (which has the same logos INCLUDING all the calvin clipart you could ever want - kinda makes ya say 'Hmmmmmmmm...'.. doesnt it?)
Anyway, I like how those companies get around the law, selling those logos but then put a disclaimer in there saying those logos are still to be used under permission only.
But regardless... use it at your own discretion, however you like, and rest assured that ANYONE who tells you they've been in business for any amount of time and have never pirated a logo or other copyrighted artwork is totally full of CRAP.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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back in 94-95 i went to the orlando sign show...picked up a CORP LOGO cd $199 if i remember right...well wasnt a year or 2 later i get this letter tellin me that i cant use those logos under penalty of jail....from some lawyer firm.....but nobody offered to give me my $199 back.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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I agree with the common sense thought, although it is sort of like only "hitting the streets" one night a week. It's still unathorized use of proprietary works. My point here is that we all turn our heads to a certain degree, if we are using clipart. Do you think SignLab got permission from all those national companies, and are they not making money off of proprietary works? ......The most important thing is that by supporting the use of clipart (and I do it), we have inadvertantly (sp) caused it's explosion into art field. Anyone can now be an artist with a computer and drawing program. This statement made considering that over half of the buying public don't know good art from bad and what's more, don't give a fat rats. How many times do you get a phone call asking how much for sign, without ever asking to view a sample of your work. Our professionalism can't really be restored, but it can be archived with a group like this with ethics. Unfortunately the baserunner worrying about stepping on the first basemans foot is probably not going to make it to second. Bronzeo
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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I have to go along with the way Ken put it. Very well stated. If it is used in support of the companies objectives of marketing their product in a positive way...I don't see a problem with it. I'm staying away from anything to do with a certain little kid and a certain excretory function
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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The question is not whether you have a corporate logo, it is how you are using it. I have used corporate logos obtained from a clip art CD, but only to build a sign that the company or a company rep is going to use. I use it to save time and money for the customer. The charge is a lot less than if I had to scan and vectorize a logo. That makes me more competitive and I have a quicker turn around time for my customer. I still charge for the setup.
-------------------- Kevin Landry KnL Signs Halifax NS Posts: 314 | From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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Another way to look at this is...PAWN SHOPS If they didn't give money for stolen goods,it would take away the incenative. IF EVERY NEW computer didn't come with a CD burner there would be less rip offs. One question to ask yourself is...IF I have to replace a damaged logo(harley) Do I take a digital photo of the good one. Tweek it,cut,apply(or paint)so another so called graphic artist gets paid for the work that I have spent time on? Once again,common sense and INTEND come into play here.
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I guess I have missed my point here. The logos "intended use" was not the basis for discussion, but rather an example of unauthorized use. Try to roll this thought pattern into clipart in general along with general plagurism, and how many real artists/designers it has left on the streets. Most of us learn to roll with the punches if we are going to "make it". Most professions have protected their heritage. We have not>>> What have we done to ourselves? I think it is a great example of the average creative mind, not neccessarily making a great business mind. Your points are all good on using the logo for the company's benefits.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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I don't care. I'm gonna use 'em ALL! Even old Mark Fair's logo is on about 7 different businesses in Flathead County. He'll never see 'em.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Ronnie, They are on e-bay all the time. Grab one. Search for "vector clipart" Go ahead Pierre, Mark's copyright is not an international one. Montana is still a territory isn't it? I think I should close this post. This post is closed. No more posting here.
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Sorry, one more post. Right after I went to ebay to check out what you said on clipart being sold, the following image is the first one I clicked on. Boy, gotta have that one. How prevalent is this stuff?
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2787 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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