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I used "Borco" drafting board coverings for years on my "cutting/work" table. It worked quite well for resisting knife blade penetration. I'd get about 5 years use before having to replace it...although it wouldn't have lasted that long if I was going full time in this sideline.
I just replaced it with the polypropelene cutting mat you see offered through SpeedPress/Grimco, etc. It is quite a bit thicker and supposed to be somewhat "self-healing".
I'm sure some of you use this product...what can you expect for it's longevity and if you don't use it, what has been your preference for a cutting surface?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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You beginning to feel comfortable Todd, welcome home!
I find that glass is easier to cut on and the price of exacto blades are always at a low. Since all of my work tables are on wheels, they have a multi-use and paint doesn't bother the glass in the least. When cutting is needed all I do is clean the glass.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
Joey, glass sounds very intriguing...I never thought about that. Seems like it would be easy on xacto blades too. Does it cause any problems with transfer tape wanting to stick to it too aggressively or not?
Ray, mdo....inexpensive and durable...do you have any problem with premature dulling of xacto blades or loose debris from occassionaly cutting into the wood?
Thanks guys
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I don't know when a blade is "supposed" to be dull, so I can't answer when "premature" might be. I just change the blade when it doesn't work any more. I must not use much force when cutting because even after all these years the board is still in pretty good shape. I've not had a problem with pieces coming up.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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among the few things I miss about the franchise shop I worked at is the long table covered by 1/4" glass. It was the best for vinyl production. Perfectly smooth for masking and putting together vinyl graphics, great for taping projects down, easy to clean.
If you're worried about cost, just look around for a glass company with a faded or just plain ugly sign that you can do some trade with- shouldn't be too hard to find.
-------------------- Alan Dearborn Dearborn Graphics Hampton, NH USA
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I've used glass also. I prefer the back side of an old acrylic sign face if it's going to be used for "production" versus weeding, taping & cutting. I set up 2 tables at the one shop I worked at. The small table was 2'x10' covered in glass. I used it for weeding, taping and hand cutting or trimming only. We only had a 15" plotter so it didn't need to be bigger. I also had a 4'x8' table covered with an old acrylic sign face that you could work on without fear of breaking the glass.
Havin' fun, Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard
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Glass top user here. I had one of those "self healing" mats, after a year and a half, the first cut still hadn't healed. You will learn to appreciate a glass top, it holds app. tape much better, your knife cuts are more precise, it cleans much easier, if you get paint on it, you just scrape it off when dry with a razor blade.
If you decide on a glass top, make sure your table is level and flat, use plastic spacers in low spots. Cover the glass edge with striping, even though the edges have been roughed up at the glass shop and will not cut, it is still abrasive enough to ruin your clothes from repeated rubbing.
My main table is a 4'x 10'. At one end of the table, I cut out a 24"x40" hole in the table and mounted light fixtures sub-surface pointing upwards. With the solid piece of 4'x10'x1/4" plate glass on top, it makes for a great light table too. Good Luck!
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Glass here to, I have a 8 ft X 16 ft table with 4@ 4 X 8 sheets of 1/4 inch glass & 1@ 4 X 8 glass also with a 45% angle. With a little care as not to drop anything on it & your table being level, it will last forever. Guess what the glass is cheaper than the mats. If you want a measurements guide just add the cloth measuring tapes under the glass. The neon colors show up really well.
-------------------- Ronnie Conrad Augusta,Ga Posts: 374 | From: Augusta,Ga. | Registered: Aug 2000
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We built a table using oak cabinets with formica top covered with 1/4" TEMPERED glass. We brok a piece once when we had untempered glass.
Posts: 121 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Registered: Feb 2001
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I just built a 2x6 wood frame, stuck a shop-lite in it, then bought a used glass shower door that already had the hardware stripped off it for $5.
I've tried breaking it using forces that would be experienced in my business without any luck... that tempered glass is strong stuff.
I use it for weeding, taping, masking and when I turn on the light it's a great light table. The backside of the glass is textured to diffuse light and the side I use is totally flat and smooth.
I wouldnt think of using any other surface.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Wow...sounds like glass is the overwhelming choice. Well crap, now I feel like I got "took" by buying the "self-healing" mat. I'll use it till I cut it to ribbons and then replace it with glass.....sounds like a good idea.
P.S. Spent over a hundred bucks for the mat.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I got a 4' x 16' with a plywood top & it looks like a gravel road. When I build my new shop (soon...YIPEE!) I'm planning to put a steel or glass top on it. (probably steel since it'll be multi purpose).
-------------------- Felix Marcano PuertoRicoSigns.Com Luquillo, PR
Work hard, party like a tourist! Posts: 2274 | From: Luquillo, Puerto Rico, USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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1/4" Plate Glass 2ft by 6ft. I was doing some signage for a glass company and they cut it for me out of a broken shop window they were replacing. Lasted over ten years so far
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I'm too clumsy to have glass anything around me.
I have 1/4" upsom board over 5/8" plywood on my lettering benches (great for cutting and push pins)
I have changed them out only once in 15 years and they are just about ready to do again.
On my weeding table I have Sintra...its smooth,handles cuts without "ridging", cleans easily with lacquer thinner,accepts masking and has enough static electricty to hold things in place...oh and did I mention it's cheap.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla. jumpers@itlnet.net
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Todd, Here in the office the 3x6 drawing board & 3x10 weeding table are covered with PromoBoard. Its just 1/4" tempered masonite with a high gloss white finish. It looks good, holds up well and costs about 10 bucks a sheet! I have a small (2x3) cutting mat at the reel end of the weeding table. Do most of my cutting there, three years old & looks like new. I replace the PromoBoard as needed, no more than once a yr. A glass top would just hurt me, and the blood stains would raise questions about just what it is I do for a living!
-------------------- Bill Dirkes Cornhole Art LLC Bellevue, Ky. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are. Posts: 591 | From: Bellevue,Ky. US | Registered: Aug 1999
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I liked the glass top, but found blades breaking tips and dulling easily. I got one of those blade sharpeners that grind the tip at an angle to alwawys make a new tip on it.
Then we tried one of those polypropelene mats. We found them to score easily and not be self healing as claimed, although they were easy on the blade tips.
Then after using my wife's green OLFA mat that she uses in her sewing room, I knew what I wanted. There was an abundance of outfits selling tham in small sizes, but I found a company in Washington that bought these larger than 4x8 sheets and cut them down to the small sizes and did the printing of all the lines and rulers. They sold us the monster sheet and it's been working great for many years. No noticable wear. It is double sided so I could flip it someday, but this thing might outlast me.
Also, from the sewing world comes those rotary cutters with the spring loaded cover that retracts when you cut. For the big cuts, much nicer than Xacto's.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
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I have a 2'x18' table with a roll of siding layed on top. Works great for dang near everything! The reason being:I use scissors to cut material all the way through. Exacto blades(and handles)are used for the purpose they were invented for:"Hand cutting films,and trim work" Guess I must be from the REALLY,REALLY Old School
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick - do you still have the info on that outfit in Washington? I have one of those self healing mats and it works fine, but the largest I could find is an 18 x 24.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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Seems like almost everyone uses a glass top. I love the idea of putting the measuring tape under the glass, got to be very handy. How about a picture of a pheasant for fun?
Pierre, I'm surprised that you didn't tell everyone who is concerned about broken glass to use Pelucid. I typed that in as a joke, but now I'm wondering. Will it harden enough in an indoor situation? How difficult would it be to get it smooth enough on say a 4'x8' table?
I'm using formica for now. Bought it because it "matched" the decor in the shop. It has a very slight texture. I simply ignored the facts and went with the "woman thing", esthetics. Bummer.
[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Kathy Joiner ]
-------------------- Kathy Joiner River Road Graphics 41628 River Road Ponchatoula, La.70454
Old enough to know better...Too young to resist. Posts: 1891 | From: Ponchatoula, LA | Registered: Nov 2000
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The great ideas just keep coming...all these solutions sound darn good. Rick, I am wondering exactly what this Olfa material is? Can you describe it a bit more? And like a few others asked....what is your source for the big sheets? Thanks.
P.S. I probably didn't mention it...but my work/cutting table is your basic 4' X 8'. My buddy that is in the sign biz has a 4' X 16' I can use for bigger stuff.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI
Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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We use two 5' x 10' tables with galvanized sheet metal tops. Like Raymond Chapman said, we don't know if the sheet metal is hard on blades, we just replace a blade when it gets dull.
Question for you glass users:
Does the glass edge work well for running a T-square on it? Any safety issues with the edge?
Thanks!
Stephen
-------------------- Stephen Bolin Signs By Tomorrow Holland, MI
Posts: 78 | From: Holland, MI | Registered: Aug 2001
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(a little to the side of the topic, but not off it)
i built a small (rolling) work/utility table for using the power tools at (away from the "clean" table for the vinyl). I also use this table for mixing paint and the like. i had some left-over "graffiti control" vinyl that i covered the table with to make paint spill removal easier. its too soon to judge how well it works, but i figure it will be a great way to judge the effectiveness of the vinyl.
as for a cutting surface, i go with the glass. if you find you're scoring the glass then you need to: a. change your blades more often b. use less cutting force.
I cut Rubylith all day long with X-acto #11 blades for three years. I've learned that most people don't change blades often enough.
Rick, i've thought about getting a blade sharpener, but never heard anything from anybody who had one, except one guy who had special $1 Teflon blades. He was a bit of a kook so it was hard to tell if the sharpener was really all that hot.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Stephen, as long as the edge is straight, running a t-square on it is no big deal.
There wont be any safety issues if the glass edge is finished off cleanly.
The old shower door I use has rounded edges on it, just like a set of glass shelves or any other glass item sold for home furniture.
I also havent had any problems with any blades cutting, scoring or scratching the glass. Ya need a diamond-tipped blade or bit to cut glass and I cant think of any Utility blade or X-acto that has a diamond edge on it.
Use tempered glass and it wont break, plain and simple.. under normal conditions, at least. I've sat on my glass table.. I'm a big'un and the glass is supported only around the perimeter by 2x6 lumber.
If you think you can apply more than 300 pounds to your glass top, yer either as big as me or yer stackin stuff on it that maybe you shouldnt.
Dropping scissors, knives, X-actos and even the occassional 8 pound laptop computer on the glass wont break it either - I've done all that already.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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i have in the house a 4x8 5/8 cdx plywood set on 2 saw horses i made at belt buckle high, this way i can stand and weed without bendin over. for a covering, you know those long runs of vinyl and that big piece of backing paper....well i put these on the plywood and hold em inplace with small clamps on the corners, when it gets cut up just remove a couple layers and trash em...out side i have my painting easel...on a 60 degree angle, and can do either 4x8 or 4 x 16....depending on the job, i keep it at 4x8...and it is another sheet of 5/8 cdx... and use this for applying vinyl to signs also. in the 74 chevy step van i got 2 counters,on either side of the stepvan....one side is the cutter and computer & it is 36" tall x 20" wide, and the other counter is again belt buckle high..for easy weeding or pouncing of a pattern for painting. it is that plain white bathroom board, and the whole table is removable and can be set up outside the van. this one is 24" x 96". if that top piece gets to nasty looking, i get another sheet of that board($10.00 i think) and glue the new one on top of the old one.then it just adds to strength of the table.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Go to most any sewing store and see the difference between the white polypropelene mats and the green OLFA ones! The green ones are thinner and far superior. The trick is for us to find a new source for the monster mats.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6724 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've been using a 24"X36" cutting mat (made by Fiskers) for about 3 years now, and it still works great. I got it at a wholesale craft store. My absolute-can't-live-without tools are the rotary cutter and the clear 6"X24" ruler (also by fiskers). This ruler is terrific for cutting striping, triming shapes and keeping things square. It is marked every inch & since you can see through it, imagine how simple it is to cut 2",3" etc. I also use it to line up stripes and graphics on vehicles.
Trust me guys, if you cut vinyl, you will love these tools. You might find them in the "scrapbooking" section of the craft stores, or in a sewing store.
Sue
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada
Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I to would like to know where to by the big olfa mats I had one of those polypropolene mats absolute rubbish I have the small olfa mats that are years old but only small would like a big one or two no joins would be great
-------------------- Ian Wilson Signmaker Retired 3 Panorama Drive Toowoomba Queensland Australia may all your troubles be little ones. The man that never make a mistake never makes anything. Posts: 656 | From: Toowoomba Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have one of those 4' x 8' mats from Speedpress. My table is of course 4 x 8 and has a 2'6" x 6' cutout where I have a custom cut 3/16" glass to fit with six flouresant lights underneath. I also have two 4' wide application tape dispensers at each end and a magnifier arm lamp mounted on one end with a double light flouresant fixture hanging overhead. All lights are plugged into a four plug receptical box and has switches that control each light. I have one main power cord that brings the juice to the box, so the table is movable.
I took some pics of it along with my plotter cabinet, but just when I need it, my scanner is acting up. Might have to take it out back and put it to sleep.
Tony B
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA