There are many "Newgroups" that will give you what you need!

We can give help. Lots of it in fact. What we can't give is something that isn't legally ours to give.

Steve has always had that rule for as long as I can remember.

Suppose you created a design and your neighbor took it without your permission to give to your competitor for him to use and make money off of it? From your comment, I take it that you wouldn't have a problem with it? After all, your neighbor was just being helpful.........wasn't he?.

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]

There is other sites or newsgroups to find this Clipworks.
It's not the practice to give or swap product here.

Unless it is owned by the Artist and He or She is willing to give it away for free.

You have to think about the owners of this board that ask for a yearly fee.

If illegal trading was done and shown in a "Court of Law" against them, then this site can and will be shut down.

Were would you and I be then?

We don't mean any harm to our industry and only hope to help each other out with our knowledge.

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Fair Signs ]

I do agree though, that you wouldn't want this forum to turn into nothing more than a "Hey, does anyone have a lake trout in a tuxedo?" kind of thing.

Maybe the solution would be to post a message saying, "clipart needed, please email me if you'd like to help" and leave it as obscure as that. Those who want to help, can and those who don't, won't. Just a suggestion. Maybe that's against the spirit of the forum too...I'm new, hanging around here. I just got done reading Steve and Barb's "bio" and was touched by their story.

Personally, I was turned on to a website with tons of corporate identities...might have been on Signweb's site, and thought it was neat. Quick and handy if you needed to do a guy's plumbing truck for instance and needed to put suppliers logos on the truck that the plumber deals with. That kind of thing.

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I still say too many people here DONT know how to SHARE......or HELP.

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The subject title of this post along with this quote makes me chuckle out loud, and leaves me scratching my head. I suppose I just don't understand the focus here. Our definitions of "help & share" must differ, or perhaps it's just a matter of perspective. I'm holding a glass that's well over half full here.

The ways most folks "help and share" on this site is too numerous to list ... information, experience, inspiration, emotional support ... etc. Free clipart just isn't a high priority for me I guess.

When I reach out for help here, it's in learning how to do things for myself, so I am not put off by an answer like "you can purchase it here". Since I'm not expecting free or easy handouts, disappointments over them escape me.

I appreciate those who share knowledge, and help me to do my job better. I also respect the boundaries set up by the webmasters here.

Yes, we can still ask for help here, ... what perhaps we shouldn't expect is someone doing our work for us. In any event, such offerings (freebies) ought to be considered a nice surprise when they take place, but otherwise, not an unfulfilled expectation to grumble over.

I also second Mark Fair's comment.

If you still can't see the forest throught the trees, just stick around a while and you will see that there is more help on this board than you would ever EXPECT.

The important thing to remember is that Steve has laid down the law. It is not open to interpretation.

Steve & Barb provide us with this site and sure could use some help paying for it!!!!
It is a full time job for them to keep up with the tons of Email and scrounging up enough money to keep it going! How do I know this?? They spent a couple of weeks with us last year...and every morning both of them would be on computers dealing with the operation of Letterhead.com!
there are hours and hours of answering Email, updating the databases, dealing with advertisers, and all the other crap it takes to keep this site going!

As has been previously stated.....Kevin...quit your bitching!

Just my very humble opinion!

Mark Fair seems to be able to express himself in a way I can’t. Don’t get me wrong, my plumbing works fine, and the animation is great. No offence Mark, but seems to me, there is a double standard here…………..go figure.

Good to see we're all on the same playing field now.........fair play is alive and well in Letterville.

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: John Martin Robson ]

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what perhaps we shouldn't expect is someone doing our work for us.

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These requests remind me of one of my pet peeves. We used to travel long distances to do rather big jobs. Inevidably I would get requests from others on the work site to use a ladder or some other tool I had brought with me. I would look the 'professional' in the eye and begin my well practiced speach. If one of my crew got the request they took great delight in refering the 'professional trades person' to me. They knew the answer well.

"We travelled many hundreds of miles to do this job. We carefully selected and packed all the tools and supplies we would need into the trailers and trucks and transported them here. We then unloaded the tools onto our carts (specially built for this purpose) and brought them to the site. We have enough tools for eachand every one of our crew to work with while they are here. If by chance we have forgotten something or a special need arises, I will go out and BUY the tool or supplies we need. We are professionals."

The 'professional' would mumble something to the effect of 'I guess I could go to my truck or shop and get what I need.'

We loved to help others on the site when they need some working space or assistance with something heavy. At coffee time others on the site were welcome to share with us (I provided drinks and snacks for my crew) Our sites were happy places where everyone cooperated.

But we drew the line when sharing tools were concerned. That just isn't professional.

That's what we try to do at live Letterhead/PinHead Meets and here at the BB.

We'll teach you how to design, fabricate, carve, gild, paint, sandblast and anything else that will improve the quality of your work. We'll hold your hand, encourage you with our posts, emails and phone calls. We'll do what we can to lift you up when you are down and save you time and money by avoiding the mistakes we have made. Over a period of years, we will share our combined years of experience and hopefully teach you to fish.

We will however, not share our tools, copy written artwork, software or other questionable material. If you need clipart, we'll teach you how to use a search engine. There are countless websites out there that deal in free, public domain clipart and/or fonts.

I am going to mention the "header" when you get onto this particular portion of the bullboard.

It says "Letterhead/PinHead Talk
This is where we share our knowledge Ask a question and try to answer one. "

In case you missed that in your haste to click on the link to get on the "Letterhead/Pinhead", please go back and have a REALLY good look to see if I quoted it correctly. Perhaps I missed the part where it says "and feel free to also trade your clipart too".

If I did misread the description of the purpose of this bullboard then I apologise and I will start posting any and all clipart I have....BUT I do really believe that I am capable of reading things correctly and I FERVENTLY believe that NO ONE has the right to criticise the OWNERS and moderators of this Bullboard.

If you want to start up a forum that promotes the free and open exchange of clipart or fonts or whatever...DO SO...But don't criticise Steve and Barb for the way THEY run THEIR forum!!!!

I have typed this response and I have re-read it to make sure I didn't type anything in haste and I still believe I speak for the vast majority of folks who visit here each and every day.

Go to the "Internet Police" and complain to THEM that the moderators are treating you unfairly because they won't let you do what YOU want on THEIR bullboard.

hahahahahahahaha, i know for a fact Si Allen is a GOD! LOL

i believe nettie said it best, "don't depend on someone else to do your work for you"

now does anyone have a gerber baby foods logo???

okay, how bout a "huggies" logo?
i would search for it myself but i would rather WHINE!!!!
hahahahahahahaha

SignGod,

Anyway, I know this has been hashed & rehashed for some time now but there are some "members" that I have sent images (clipart) to when they were in a bind and couldn't find what they needed in their arsenal of images, and, nobody bitched about it. I thought I was helping a friend.

Its obvious you dont

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But it's the attitude that is posted that makes it a shane.[/QB]

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[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: AZBrad ]

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]

I respect everyone in here but c'mon....I saw an "Underdog" posted on another topic on this site the other day. I could be wrong...but isn't that trademarked and copywrited material? Not sure if it's legal to be scanning and posting that stuff either .....

Although, on the flip side...yes, I can see that Steve and Barb created this site, have their rules for whatever reason...and they should be respected....and true, there are websites that offer clipart...I especially liked Kissy's suggestion about Roland. That seems like a good way to get some milk without buying the whole cow.

I posted the "Underdog" image. The difference is "parody", not for financial gain.

Take a look at Weird Al Yankovic. He creates a lot of music parodies. Does he have to pay a royalties? No, not according to a court of law in a suit brought against him by Coolio for the Amish Paradise song.

However, if he had copied the music and sold it as is, then he would be in trouble for copyright violation. For example, several "artists", particularly Hip-Hop artist, have been sucessfully sued for copyright violation in their use of "sampling." Rick James vs. MC Hammer would be an example. The suit against Vanilla Ice back in the early 90's would be another.

Look at Berkley Breathed's cartoon "Outland". Ever looked at the mouse? Its a dead ringer for Disney's Mickey Mouse. Can Disney do anything about it? No. Because it is clearly a parody of mouse.

Heaven knows Mad Magazine would have been shut down a long time ago if parody were considered an infringement!

Again, where copyrighted clipart (and fonts) is concerned, if it is being used for financial gain, it can not be used without permission.

*************

Case Law Example.....

Leibovitz v. Paramount Pictures Corporation
ANNIE LEIBOVITZ, Plaintiff,
-against-
PARAMOUNT PICTURES CORPORATION, Defendant.

94 Civ. 9144 (LAP)

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

December 18, 1996, Decided
December 18, 1996, FILED

This action examines the extent to which a parody that appears in the form of an advertisement can constitute a fair use of a copyrighted work. Plaintiff is a well-known photographer who shot a photograph of the actress Demi Moore that appeared on the August, 1991 cover of Vanity Fair. Ms. Moore was eight months pregnant and nude in the photo, the publication of which aroused a great deal of controversy. It is undisputed that plaintiff is the sole owner of the copyright in this photograph. In 1993, the defendant was developing advertising in connection with the release of its film, Naked Gun: The Final Insult 33 1/3. The defendant eventually selected a "teaser" ad which it contends was a parody of the Vanity Fair cover. In the advertisement, a model who was also eight months pregnant was photographed against a backdrop similar to that used in the Demi Moore photograph; the lighting and pose were also similar to the Moore photograph. Further, the photograph was subjected to some computer manipulation in order to duplicate the skin tone and body configuration that appeared in the Moore photo.

On top of the second model's body, however, appeared a photograph of the face of Leslie Nielsen, the star of the Naked Gun series of films. In contrast to Ms. Moore's expression of fulfillment, serenity, and pride, Mr. Nielsen's face wore a guilty smirk. Underneath the photo ran the legend "Due This March."

Plaintiff brought suit, charging that the advertisement infringed her copyright in the Moore photograph. Defendant conceded that plaintiff owns the copyright in the photograph and that its advertisement targeted the Moore photograph, but
contended that the ad was a parody and a fair use of plaintiff's copyrighted work. The parties made cross-motions for summary judgment.

The plaintiff's motion for summary judgment is denied, and defendant's motion for summary judgment is granted.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]

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Here's another ......If I screen print a lot of t-shirts with NC State Wolfpack on it, I'm in the clear legally. But, if I do t-shirts with Duke's name on it, I'm in heap big trouble. Why? NC State Wolfpack is a public university, Duke is a private one. A screen printer in Raleigh, NC, learned that one the hard way a few years ago.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]

Kudos Steve,

just thought it might be good to mention that the folks buying these things... not the smartest folks alive. While driving home yesterday I was behing a GMC Jimmy that had a little calvin guy peeing on a CHEVY symbol.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: John Martin Robson ]